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p4277

Panthers Owner Uncertain of Future in Florida

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p4277 wrote:

> WP98, you're saying there will be 14K fans at Wolfpack game(s) this year.

> Is that for opening night?

 

 

Well, a few years back WolfPack Nation was doing 14k for Playoff games, so let's hope we do that again come April and May when we are in contention for the Calder Cup. Like I always say, when you're rolling with the big dogs, that's when you know you're rolling with WolfPack Nation. I know Biggie1083 will be there, I will be there, KarmanosIsGod will be there, the Hartford Examiner will be reporting from there, hope**lly Governor Malloy will also be there as his reelection will only be about 3 weeks away at that point.

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WolfpackFan1998 wrote:

> Well, a few years back

 

Stop right there. This is not a few years back. This is 2014 and a lot has changed, including the dissolvement of wolf pack nation, which isn't saying much and more than likely just a figment of your imagination. You will need four wolf pack games to reach 14,000 people. The Whalers topped that number countless times but we need not go to the obvious. I laugh at the term "championship hockey" to this current wolf pack team, but again you are good for a laugh. And Governor Malloy will not be there. He hates the wolf pack and is regularly talking to Gary Bettman about the NHL in Hartford. The AHL is already in his rear view mirror. We're just burning of the **** and residue of what as been until the Hartford Whalers return.

 

I do agree, though, that the upgrades for the Whalers temporary home are looking quite nice. Does anyone agree?

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"Well, a few years back WolfPack Nation was doing 14k for Playoff games, so let's hope we do that again come April and May when we are in contention for the Calder Cup."

 

Let's see if I can translate this for anyone who is new here and hasn't seen your delusional posts before... You went to a game years ago, and the crowd was larger than normal. You estimated the crowd to be 14k, and since then you figure that is what this team gets. In reality, they rarely draw half that number.

 

"Like I always say, when you're rolling with the big dogs, that's when you know you're rolling with WolfPack Nation."

 

Big dogs? Do you understand what minor league means? Outside of a few people in the Hartford area, who you named, nobody knows who the Wolfpack is/are. And no one cares.

 

Here's a nickel's worth of free advice. It's fine to like the Wolfpack and go to the games if you want. But coming on a Whalers board and trying to convince people that it's a big deal makes you sound ridiculous. Add the political rants and people can be forgiven if they think you should be sedated and committed to a rehab facility. Just go to the games and enjoy yourself. There's no need to act like an insipid fool in defense of your beloved minor league team.

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Thanks for the welcome back p42. I couldn't help not posting after p98 with his insane posts . I'm sure the members noted his lame posts patronizing me. He was like a dog in heat as I think I kicked him off my leg at least 6X. Can we all agree that a 15,000 building is ridiculous. 16,000 isn't much better. what would be the cost of adding 2,000. minimal I would think.

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This post probably be on a new thread, but the arguments about all negotiations and planning are top secret concerning a new arena for NHL and have not had any leaks beats this country's NSA. Stop comparing it to Winnipeg's success as they are two differn' t situations. Although the negotiations concerning the baseball / offices/ residents is also secret much has leaked out which says to me that it will fly in some fashion. NOT so for the NHL. Way too many problems starting with the site and new verses old being renovated two more times for NHL. Not believable Not logical in any way shape or form. once again 32 mil spending on what's there tells me that is what will be there for many years. Get used to it.

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It's interesting that this post was about one of the new owners of the Florida Panthers saying that the team might not survive in Miami. Nowhere did the article imply that they would move to Hartford. I didn't say that either. Yet that's what all the subsequent posts have been about. It's questionable if the Panthers could ever be viable in their present location, and the same can be said for other teams as well. Realistically, we need to look at the teams in trouble and see why they are struggling. Is it bad management or a bad market? Then compare those problems to Hartford and see if things would be better for an NHL team here. We probably all agree that Hartford would be better than Phoenix or Miami, but that's not good enough. We are a small market, and not like Winnipeg, where everyone is a rabid hockey fan. Our support of the Whalers was not great, and teams need much more revenue now than they did 17 years ago. I know the team ****ed, marketing was non-existent, and the TV contract was a joke. How would these things change enough to allow the NHL to survive now?

 

I would love to have the NHL back, but if it happened, would Hartford end up like Phoenix and Florida? If so, I'd rather not get the team at all instead of losing another one.

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p4277 wrote:

> It's interesting that this post was about one of the new owners of the

> Florida Panthers saying that the team might not survive in Miami. Nowhere

> did the article imply that they would move to Hartford. I didn't say that

> either. Yet that's what all the subsequent posts have been about. It's

> questionable if the Panthers could ever be viable in their present

> location, and the same can be said for other teams as well. Realistically,

> we need to look at the teams in trouble and see why they are struggling.

> Is it bad management or a bad market? Then compare those problems to

> Hartford and see if things would be better for an NHL team here. We

> probably all agree that Hartford would be better than Phoenix or Miami, but

> that's not good enough. We are a small market, and not like Winnipeg,

> where everyone is a rabid hockey fan. Our support of the Whalers was not

> great, and teams need much more revenue now than they did 17 years ago. I

> know the team ****ed, marketing was non-existent, and the TV contract was a

> joke. How would these things change enough to allow the NHL to survive

> now?

>

> I would love to have the NHL back, but if it happened, would Hartford end

> up like Phoenix and Florida? If so, I'd rather not get the team at all

> instead of losing another one.

 

Salary cap, revenue sharing, expansive television options, social media, etc. all didn't exist back then. On top of that Connecticut as a state has grown by more than 320,000 residents since 1997. That's thousands upon thousands of potential customers not around when the team existed.

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P42, you explain it very well especially the stupid comparison between Hartford and Winnipeg. There are no other big time sports for hundreds of miles except the CFL. I too am not at all sure it would fly here so close to metro nyc and boston. And the big ? how many real knowlegable hockey fans live in the greater Hartford area. Even western M*****. did not really support Hartford from my memory. Some yes but very thin. I also believe that jersey and a few others who want a 15,000 seat match box is because he knows there's a very good chance of limited support thus more empty seats. What an epic embarr*****ment if there are two failures. At least when Atlanta failed twice they have major league teams in the other sports. The big pt here is Hartford and Winnipeg are not related in any shape or form culturally, geographically, historically, demographically or any other way. Hockey and only hockey rules the sports sphere in Winnipeg. So jersey I know you will do your limited rebuttal by leaving out what you can't rebut which is par for your limited abilities

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Umm I see your capabilities to understand are the problem here.. The reference to Winnipeg was how they got a team back with no mention at all like all the other so called "hot spots".. It just happened and no one knew about it..

 

Now in my opinion, 15,000 seat arena will do just fine for many teams in the league, not just hartford.. I think someone posted it here, bad market or bad management, well we know what category we fell under..15635 is a good solid number, maximize your revenue with boxes and all the fan zones and you have an arena well fit for the nhl..

 

Whaleofatime has a great post just on all the new benefits a new team will have to work with..

 

See topcat I don't need to make **n of you because you make **n of yourself, your last line shoud show you what you are..

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Whaleofatime wrote:

 

> Salary cap, revenue sharing, expansive television options, social media, etc. all

> didn't exist back then. On top of that Connecticut as a state has grown by more than

> 320,000 residents since 1997. That's thousands upon thousands of potential customers

> not around when the team existed.

 

To be honest, I didn't believe that last statement, but it's definitely true (granted these are using estimation methods, but you get the picture).......

 

http://www.ct.gov/ecd/lib/ecd/dph-population/dph_pop_1997.pdf

 

1997 : 3,269,858

 

http://www.ct.gov/dph/lib/dph/hisr/hcqsar/population/pdf/FINAL_pop_towns2012.pdf

 

Last year of data on the ct.gov site is from 2012: 3,590,347

 

From Uncle Sam:

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/09000.html

2014 : 3,596,080

 

~326k increase

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"Salary cap, revenue sharing, expansive television options, social media, etc. all didn't exist back then. On top of that Connecticut as a state has grown by more than 320,000 residents since 1997."

 

The salary cap also has a salary floor, which has been increasing each year. Can a Hartford team afford today's NHL salaries? Revenue sharing is greater than in 1997, but still a drop in the bucket compared to other sports. It's still a gate-driven league. In Winnipeg, they are making it in a small arena by charging sky high prices. Would Hartford fans pay those prices? We didn't pay really high prices 17 years ago, it's fair to ask if we would now. Television depends on ratings, no one can tell what local ratings would be until it happens, but it's fair to say that we will never have the audience of MSG or NESN. Social media is great to generate some buzz, but how much revenue will it generate?

 

Nice to know we have more people, but how many are hockey fans? And where are they located?

 

"Mr. Bb, thank you.. And if you are a hartford whalers fan you know exactly what kind of market hartford is.. We are truly some of the most die hard fans."

 

No argument here. But we are like the Marines, the few and the proud. Problem is that "few" doesn't cut it.

 

I know I sound negative, but I'm just trying to ask realistic questions. I would love to have the NHL back, and Hartford is a better market than several current NHL markets. But it's not enough to be better than disaster areas like Phoenix and Miami. We want to be viable long term. I still question if we are.

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The revenue sharing cut for each team combined with each teams share of the 2 big national tv contracts offset any concerns you have over the cap floor. Bettman said himself that the teams that moved in the 90's prob all wouldn't have if those deals existed 20 years ago. I believe its upwards of 35 mil/yr per team this year, and like the floor will increase yr to yr.

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will5059 wrote:

> The revenue sharing cut for each team combined with each teams share of the

> 2 big national tv contracts offset any concerns you have over the cap

> floor. Bettman said himself that the teams that moved in the 90's prob all

> wouldn't have if those deals existed 20 years ago. I believe its upwards of

> 35 mil/yr per team this year, and like the floor will increase yr to yr.

 

Good to know, but even with this increased revenue sharing, there are teams losing lots of money each year. That's why the Panthers' owner doesn't think the team can make it in Miami. It hasn't helped Phoenix either. The list of money losers is long, can the Whalers 2.0 make money year after year even if they miss the playoffs? That's what it takes to be long term viable...

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Those questions can only be awnsered one way, and that's for a team to come back.. But you came take steps to make sure it dosnt happen again like maybe try and have a winning team, no more losers for gms or coaches that drink.. Most of the players that played for the whalers loved to play here and loved the area, and some greats have done that.. The mid to late 80s they were on to something.. Imagine what people think about the devils and there solid team year after year, that's a perfect bad market situation like pheonix..

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nedman wrote:

http://www.ct.gov/ecd/lib/ecd/dph-population/dph_pop_1997.pdf

http://www.ct.gov/dph/lib/dph/hisr/hcqsar/population/pdf/FINAL_pop_towns2012.pdf

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/09000.html

thanks for stats nedman. what is sad is that wether you compare 97 state stats to 2012 state stats or 2013 us stats hartford is only Ct city bigger than 50000 people to lose people. bridgeport and stamford and new haven and bristol and meriden and waterbury and danbury and new britain and norwalk and west haven all had population go up from 97 to 2012 or 97 to 2013 but not hartford. some thing has got to be done cause that is not good. just frustrating and sad.

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The fanbase for a **ture nhl team in hartford will be made up of people who live in the surrounding suburban town. Citing the population of people than live within the city limits doesn't tell the whole story. Its also safe to *****ume that many who work in hartford don't live in the city. One of the major reasons cities build arenas is to attract people who do not live in the city to come and spend money. Therefore benefiting the residents who may not care about hockey or basketball or any other events happening in the arena.

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jerseydiehardwhaler wrote:

> Those questions can only be awnsered one way, and that's for a team to come

> back.

 

Yeah that's true, but if you were a wealthy businessman looking for a market to put a new or relocated team, would you choose Hartford? Try to take the fan emotion out of it and think of it from a business perspective. I'm a Whaler fan, so from that viewpoint, I'd want a team here, but if it was my millions on the line, Hartford would rank no better than third. Seattle and Quebec City would be ahead, IMO, (if Seattle gets a new arena). Obviously I would do a lot of in-depth research into each possible city. Considering Connecticut's economy, the small, old (though reconditioned) arena, and a fan base divided between Boston and New York, Hartford has a lot of issues working against it.

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P42, stop with your logic. these people will never see or understand any of it. It's like they're under some spell or a drug induced delusion. NO NHL FOR YOU Get used to it. Hope**lly No MSG either. Well all I know and care about is that in just a few weeks I'll be making a few trips to Montreal to check out the new beast of the east. A lot of new faces with character skill and desire will have their names on the only cup that matters very soon.

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