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p4277

Panthers Owner Uncertain of Future in Florida

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top cat wrote:

> P42, stop with your logic. these people will never see or understand any of

> it. It's like they're under some spell or a drug induced delusion. NO NHL

> FOR YOU Get used to it. Hope**lly No MSG either. Well all I know and care

> about is that in just a few weeks I'll be making a few trips to Montreal to

> check out the new beast of the east. A lot of new faces with character

> skill and desire will have their names on the only cup that matters very

> soon.

 

That's not what I'm saying, TC. I'm bringing up issues to see how they can be resolved or overcome. I really hope we get a team again, it's been too long. I think it could work here, but it won't be easy. Or cheap. I think the difference between you and I is that I want a team to succeed here. You're negative not just about the chances for the NHL, but about people, the city, and the state. And I certainly don't give a rat's a$$ about Montreal.

 

WhalePack wrote:

> ...If it can happen in Winnipeg, it can happen in Hartford...

 

Yes it can, but it's far from a sure thing. Winnipeg and Hartford are very different markets. Fans in Winnipeg are paying really high prices for tickets. Would we be able to fill the building at those prices?

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Let's not forget the time when the whalers were making money, the Baldwin era sold for good money than and made money in a pre salary cap revenue sharing era on the league.. If I'm a business man I'm gonna look at the last, study it, see that there are no major league teams to take away from me and think to my self that hartford is a better spot than several other cities in the league already.. I think the pros out weigh the cons here..

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Yes, they made money back then, but that was decades ago. Things are very different now. Even with a cap, salaries are much higher than they ever were then. It seems like smaller markets are being priced out of the NHL, and not just Hartford. How will Whalers 2.0 generate the revenue needed to survive in the NHL of today?

 

I agree that Hartford would be a better market than several current NHL markets, with Phoenix and Miami at the top of that list. As I said before, just being better than those very weak markets isn't good enough. In any given season, half or more of the NHL's teams lose money. If a team is always in that money-losing half, it's not viable long term. In my view, a team needs to be able to at least break even during the regular season, and then they can make money if they make the playoffs. Can a team in Hartford make enough money during the regular season to break even? And if they miss the playoffs for many years in a row, as the Whalers did, would they still be able to survive?

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Absolutely that holds true for every team in the league.. San Jose is a perfect example, sellout every game and deep playoff runs and still losing money.. 23 out of 30 teams lose money, that's crazy.. We really just don't know how a whalers return would do but odds are they would do better with the new business model in the league.. But again, you have to at least have an organization commited to putting a great team together like we had in the 80s

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It seems that the league's business model isn't working if 23 out of 30 teams are losing money and if the Sharks can sell out every game, go to the playoffs, and still lose money. Of course, accounting schemes can be set up to make a team look like it's losing money, but not all the teams are juggling the books in this way. I just don't know how a new Hartford Whalers team will do in the 21st century NHL. From a business standpoint, it seems very risky IMO.

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I'm sure te thought process is equal on both sides but in the end every business is a risk, some people invest hundreds, some thousands some millions.. Based on overall facts hartford is better than more than a few locations in the current nhl so that's a good start..

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P42, my reading comprehension and apparently my memory are still intact. I never ever stated that I wished that Hartford would not get another crack at big time hockey. In fact I stated multiple times that I hope my hometown does get a team and hope it is success**l. Where we agree is that there are serious issues that have to be overcome. I also stated that it could be success**l several times. I also stated the NHL has grown in popularity nation wide which includes Ct. NO, I don't have a lot of patients with naïve blinded cheer leaders who really believe that a NHL return is eminent. IT IS FAR From IT. I also think that the negative issues out weigh the positive. As far as my excitement about the habs and the whole NHL starting camp very soon just breaking stones, but this is an exciting time for hockey. My Bruin fans here want to go to some of the practices in Montreal. If that bugs you or anyone else tough $ $ $ $. **** it it up

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p4277 wrote:

> will5059 wrote:

> > The revenue sharing cut for each team combined with each teams share of the

> > 2 big national tv contracts offset any concerns you have over the cap

> > floor. Bettman said himself that the teams that moved in the 90's prob all

> > wouldn't have if those deals existed 20 years ago. I believe its upwards of

> > 35 mil/yr per team this year, and like the floor will increase yr to yr.

>

> Good to know, but even with this increased revenue sharing, there are teams losing

> lots of money each year. That's why the Panthers' owner doesn't think the team can

> make it in Miami. It hasn't helped Phoenix either. The list of money losers is

> long, can the Whalers 2.0 make money year after year even if they miss the playoffs?

> That's what it takes to be long term viable...

 

The answer is no. There is a solid core of fans that will support the Whalers no matter what just like last time. Unfortunately Connecticut (metro Hartford) has proven itself time and again that it will only support a winner. Sure there would be an overwhelming surge of support at first if the Whalers returned but if the team preformed badly season after season there is no doubt in my mind support would then diminish along with the attendance. This State in general has a very "bandwagon" mentality when it comes to supporting sports teams. I really think we need to learn to walk a little here before we try to run. We've upgraded the Civic Center, let's now focus on getting rid of MSG/Rangers and getting a new affiliate in here. Let that flourish awhile along with UConn hockey downtown and then maybe in a few years we can talk NHL. Couple that with the plans going forward for Hartford North and the Rock Cats and maybe it could all come together for us. One step at a time.

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Thank you w4e, yes boys another plagerist stating pretty much word for word what I've said. Fellows it's ok to agree with me and admit it. I don't think the cheer leaders will call you outside to dance.

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Please, not another call to support AHL hockey for several years. I'd love to get the Rangers out of here as much as anyone and believe a new affiliate would be an easier sell, but it'd still be an AHL team playing AHL hockey hoping to move up and out of here. With a new affiliate, I could probably go to a couple of games but the idea of filling the building for the AHL is irrelevant to getting the NHL back. I disagreed with Baldwin's notion of supporting an AHL team in order to "rebuild the market" because what is going to bring big league hockey back is a new arena and an owner with deep pockets, not putting 9,000 in the building to play the Hershey Bears or Binghamton Senators.

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J@@@@ C%%%%%, another logical agreeable post all in one day. That's got to be a new record. For several yrs. I've stated supporting an ahl team will not be of any benefit in getting a team back. Quite the contrary it would only encourage that affiliate to stay. The worst part has always been that the affiliate here is the nyr. who removed our banners and tried to blot out our memories and history as well. That pk98 and biggie is not forgivable. The rags got to go As for Howard B I think he was using this NHL return idea in order to gain favoritism with Whaler fans. Did he not say that the XL could be renovated for NHL. Finally, many of you guys put him just where he wanted to be a guy with no $$ getting his foot back in the door of hockey in Hartford even if it's ahl msg crap.

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"P42, stop with your logic. these people will never see or understand any of it. It's like they're under some spell or a drug induced delusion. NO NHL FOR YOU Get used to it."

 

Topcat exactly what are you talking about.. Your posts are all over, and who do you agree with, quite frankly you go against yourself in your posts.. And dare I ask how the cons outweigh the pros, I'm curious to see your list and facts to back up what you see, because you can't seem to do that.. All I see is you bashing every member here.

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And all everybody else sees is delusional, nutty , grandiose, BS from your mouth. Get rid of the Rags and replace it with any other team's affiliate except Boston or NC. Sorry sport's fans the Habs have no intention of leaving from where they are now.

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p4277 wrote:

>If you were a wealthy businessman looking for a market to put a

> new or relocated team, would you choose Hartford? Try to take the fan emotion out of

> it and think of it from a business perspective. I'm a Whaler fan, so from that

> viewpoint, I'd want a team here, but if it was my millions on the line, Hartford

> would rank no better than third.

 

Making the case for Hartford:

 

- Vastly under-served sports market with no direct sports competition for corporate or ticket $.

- Major league television market at 30th in the country (add Springfield 35 min to the north and we're 21st) + we've demonstrated strong ratings through NHL/USMNT.

- Buying power of the region is impressive (quick example:http://bit.ly/1p1HHmM) & CT has some of the most available personal income out of any state in the country with Hartford personally clocking in at #8. Seattle on the other hand is severely over-saturated/over-extended as sports market with limited (negative) available income; that gap will only widen if the Super Sonics return.

- The Whalers are already an established brand that has built up quite a bit of equity over time, that has a lot of value.

- There's a solid base of corporate support here barring the right owner can bring it all together.

- Lower overhead costs due to easy travel as an owner in Hartford, numerous built in rivalries which help drive prices and the close proximity of opposing teams fans is not a bad thing because green is green at the end of the day.

- 4M+ people within a short 1 hour drive of the XL Center.

- Very respectable youth program in state with copious amounts of minor league hockey being played & NCAA programs.

- Any owner that comes here won't be contending with any existing entity already in the marketplace (be it tenant or owner), whoever comes in will be able to set their own rules especially when it comes to revenue from the arena. That's huge in an of itself.

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We have pro's for sure but one thing that needs to happen is the XL needs to be completely replaced. Lets just hope that this end of the year plan calls for that because no owner will put a franchise in a city with a 40+ y/o building no matter how much they spruce it up.

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And just to reiterate again, Connecticut as a state has grown by over 325,000 since the Whalers departed in 1997. Even if a measly 1% of those folks are Whalers fans that's 3,250 NEW paying customers that didn't exist when the Whalers were around.

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I want my Whalers back as much as anyone. I just don't see it happening in the next 2 to 3 years. Hartford, City and State will never pony up the money and there is no one riding in on a white horse (with deep pockets) willing to save the day. I believe it will happen, just not soon enough for most of us. Of course the AHL is not my preference but if it must be AHL hockey for now, at least give me an affiliate I can **lly enjoy and live with while I wait for the City, State and for any potential investors to get off their butts and get something done to get the Whalers back. Oh, and the Canadians farm team is NOT a viable option either. NO New York, Boston, Montreal or Carolina farm teams in Hartford. Also, people in Vermont living in gl***** houses shouldn't throw stones. No one is intentionally plagiarizing you. If anyone happens to comes close to agreeing with you or one of your posts I'm sure it's purely coincidence as seldom has anyone on this board ever posted the phrase "I agree with Top Cat". Not sure how someone who claims to be so Pro Whalers and Pro Hartford can spend so much time bashing on other people all under the guise of being a "realist". Some of us like to discuss and post about the possibility of our Whalers coming back to Hartford. While others prefer to spend their time being negative and "pissing" on everyone's camp fire.

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We all want the NHL back...we, except for a couple of freaking idiots. We all have different thoughts and ideas on how that can happen. Criticizing and putting down people for their ideas is stupid and self destructive, and I guess that is never going to stop.

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Whaleofatime wrote:

> Connecticut as a state has grown by over 325,000 since the Whalers departed in 1997. Even if a measly 1% of those

> folks are Whalers fans that's 3,250 NEW paying customers that didn't exist when the Whalers were around.

 

 

Well, apparently your figure of 1-percent is far too optimistic, in the 3rd period of WhaleFlop in East Hartford, Jeff Jacobs (Courant) said there were only about 3000 people in the stands. Also, for a playoffs game played in Connecticut, the Whale only got about 1200.

 

So, let's not use that 1-percent number, it is far too large of a number for the old stale green/blue brand which failed twice in Hartford.

 

Come this October, Biggie1083, PackFan5580, myself, KarmanosIsGod, and over ten-thousand others will be doing our best to bring another Calder Cup back to Hartford, we're going to be up front with the Pack, running with the lead dog, setting the pace, trying to put another Championship banner in our arena's rafters.

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WolfpackFan1998 wrote:

> Whaleofatime wrote:

> > Connecticut as a state has grown by over 325,000 since the Whalers departed in

> 1997. Even if a measly 1% of those

> > folks are Whalers fans that's 3,250 NEW paying customers that didn't exist when

> the Whalers were around.

>

>

> Well, apparently your figure of 1-percent is far too optimistic, in the 3rd period of

> WhaleFlop in East Hartford, Jeff Jacobs (Courant) said there were only about 3000

> people in the stands. Also, for a playoffs game played in Connecticut, the Whale

> only got about 1200.

>

> So, let's not use that 1-percent number, it is far too large of a number for the old

> stale green/blue brand which failed twice in Hartford.

>

> Come this October, Biggie1083, PackFan5580, myself, KarmanosIsGod, and over

> ten-thousand others will be doing our best to bring another Calder Cup back to

> Hartford, we're going to be up front with the Pack, running with the lead dog,

> setting the pace, trying to put another Championship banner in our arena's rafters.

 

The Whale aren't the Whalers old man, not many people besides you and Biggie idolize the AHL. 6,307. Don't make it 2 years in a row of all-time low home opener attendance :lol:

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top cat wrote: "For several yrs. I've stated supporting an ahl team will not be of any benefit in getting a team back."

 

And I've been saying that since 1998. Unlike you however, I'm going to *****ume that I wasn't the only one in the entire world who has. As such I won't take credit for an obvious sentiment the way you always try to. It seems inevitable that at some point you'll tell us it was you who told NASA that sending Armstrong & Aldrin to the moon would be a good idea. :roll:

 

top cat wrote: "As far as my excitement about the habs and the whole NHL starting camp very soon just breaking stones, but this is an exciting time for hockey...If that bugs you or anyone else tough $ $ $ $. **** it it up"

 

This may come as a surprise to you, but it is very, very unlikely that anyone here gives a flying fig where les Bleu, Blanc et Rouge finish or don't finish. If they do well, good for them. If they don't; better luck next year. Either way, personne ici ne se soucie vraiment.

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