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Monizzle145

Finally went to the new XL....not really impressed

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#1 The any arena project would be **nded by the state of Connecticut, not the city of Hartford. #2 maybe having both a **ll time NHL tenant along with the husky basketball teams could help bridge the gap. Thirdly the example you give is one dimensional. Many times when team owners are given sweetheart arena deals they also bring the other business operations to the state. (I.e. Karmanos bringing Compuware to N.C. or Illitch's many businesses in detroit. Adding jobs and tax payers to the grand list. Not to mention the 25 or so millionaires that will be looking for residence in the suburbs. I don't dispute you're example but it's not quite that cut and dry. Finally I give you this: any state spends money and a number of things , some effect you personally , some dont. We can come out of this "losing " less than we currently do now subsidizing the XL Center and actually have something to show for it. Much less offensive to me than a billion dollars on buses and acting like they space ships.

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will5059 wrote:

> #1 The any arena project would be **nded by the state of Connecticut, not

> the city of Hartford. #2 maybe having both a **ll time NHL tenant along

> with the husky basketball teams could help bridge the gap. Thirdly the

> example you give is one dimensional. Many times when team owners are given

> sweetheart arena deals they also bring the other business operations to the

> state. (I.e. Karmanos bringing Compuware to N.C. or Illitch's many

> businesses in detroit. Adding jobs and tax payers to the grand list. Not to

> mention the 25 or so millionaires that will be looking for residence in the

> suburbs. I don't dispute you're example but it's not quite that cut and

> dry. Finally I give you this: any state spends money and a number of things

> , some effect you personally , some dont. We can come out of this

> "losing " less than we currently do now subsidizing the XL Center

> and actually have something to show for it. Much less offensive to me than

> a billion dollars on buses and acting like they space ships.

 

Not to mention will, interest rates are at an all time low witch will help the cause..

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when did karmanos bring compuware to north carolina cause compuware has always been based in michigan. first in southfield then in farmington hills and now in detroit. and mike illitch businesses didnt move to detroit cause his Nhl team was there. ilitch businesses including the red wings were always gonna be in detroit area cause illitch is a detroit guy. he was born in detroit and raised in detroit and went in to business in detroit.

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i am all for a new arena for hartford but it has to be **nded right way and state of connecticut paying 75% of arena building cost like city of kansas city did on sprint center is not the right way in my opinion. always states and citys that end up being on hook for paying off debt for construction costs of arenas while companies that manage them are being payed big management fees and teams that play in them are getting sweet heart lease and collecting money from things like parking and concession and naming rights. it needs to be more even investment i think with teams and arena management companies putting more money in to construction than they normally do.

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Again I said Malloy has said that it would be a partnership. To me that means no team will be getting a "free " building. I never said Illitch's moved his business to Detroit but he does have businesses in detroit. It's not like he's a transplant who gives jobs to Asia and gets a free building. There's a difference. Compuware opened an office in Raleigh and another in Durham . Those may be the offices that he would have brought here to connecticut if his demands were met. We can debate whether or not those negotiations were done in good faith but unless your dad has a flow chart of what was going on inside karmonos' s head at the time it would be all speculation. Once again with uconn and an nhl team playing in any new building thy e burden on the STATE may be lightened. I'm not saying our state should pull a Glendale and cover all the teams losses. There is a difference.

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thanks for heads up on compuware offices in durham and raleigh. i didnt know about them. i sure hope governor malloy makes sure that state of connecticut has real true partners in building a new arena in hartford. seems like they always call these arena and stadium building plans partnerships but they arent even close to being equal partnerships. the state or city goverments put in most of the money to build the things and then the pro teams that play in the arenas and stadiums and the companies that manage the arenas and stadiums make most of the money off of the arenas and stadiums. and the states and citys end up paying debt on construction prices forever. look at sprint center deal cause that was called a partnership but the partner that is city of kansas city paid 77 per cent of construction and is still paying debt on the construction. other partners like aeg only played 23 per cent of construction and now are getting big money out of managing arena. that is not kind of deal i want to see connecticut do cause i am planning on staying in Connecticut after grad school and starting a business and family here. i dont want state putting tons of money in a arena and paying for debt for building arena for years and years while "partners' get rich off of sweet leases and management deals and name rights and concession money and all the rest.

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thats not true jerseydiehardwhaler cause there are places where owners of teams have paid for building arenas and stadiums. san francisco giants paid $357 million to build at&t ballpark. city of san francisco gave giants infra structure help and a abatement on taxes but city charges giants $1 million a year to rent land ballpark is on and giants paid to build whole $357 million bill for building ballpark. new england patriots built gillette stadium for $325 million by them selves. state of m*****achusetts paid about $70 mill for infra structure but bob kraft has to pay that back with payments every year. bruins owners took out loans to pay $160 million to build new garden by them selves with city and state just helping with some infra structure. and Bruins owners are getting ready to pay for $70 million renovation by them selves. so it is possible that owners of teams can pay to build construction of arenas totally by them selves with states and citys just helping out with infra structure. and some times the states and citys can even get team owners to pay back infra structure like m*****achusetts did with kraft and patriots. so lets hope that is kind of deal governor malloy fights to get cause that would be best for state of connecticut.

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San Fran and Boston owners are forced to use private money on facilities because they have zero leverage on the public sector. Those leagues would never let those franchises leave their markets and that is one of the reasons I believe the Pats would have never come here because the NFL would never abandoned the Boston/Providence market.

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PlainvilleWhale wrote:

> San Fran and Boston owners are forced to use private money on facilities

> because they have zero leverage on the public sector. Those leagues would

> never let those franchises leave their markets and that is one of the

> reasons I believe the Pats would have never come here because the NFL would

> never abandoned the Boston/Providence market.

IIRC after the memorandum of understanding was signed by Kraft and the state of CT the NFL offered 0% for stadium renovations to the top 6 tv markets. Boston being #6 . Pretty convenient huh? So the way I see it it was the league that killed the pats in Hartford.

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screw that! if state of connecticut and city of hartford are big solution to a Nhl problem like so many people on board say we are then state of connecticut and city of hartford should have leverage with owners who are talking to malloy about maybe bringing Nhl team here. and governor Malloy and other state and city political officers should use the leverage to get any body who wants to bring Nhl team here to pay for building arena. state of connecticut and city of hartford can help with infra structure and maybe get owners of team a deal on price of land to build arena on. but team should pay to build arena or at least pay 75 per cent of cost to build. cause if we are really solution to problem and owners and league want to be in connecticut and hartford then they should be willing to do it. if they aren't willing to do it then they are just looking to take advantage of desperate state or city and get arena built for them with some one elses money. screw that cause if a pro team owner isn't willing to pay for arena that his team is gonna make tons of money with from name rights and concessions and other stuff then getting a pro team isnt worth it.

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Chad to finish up our discussion I'll say this: the state and country you live in spends money left and right and most of the time it will be on something you'll never use. Take the 600 million dollar bus lane that's 10 miles long. The XL center loses money, partially because it's outdated. A new arena is more than just sports. It's about not always losing out and letting things pack and leave. It's a place for hockey , basketball and concerts to happen. All this coming in less expensive than a bus lane. Out of all the things they waste my taxes on this wouldn't even break top 10.

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WhalerChad wrote:

> screw that! if state of connecticut and city of hartford are big solution

> to a Nhl problem like so many people on board say we are then state of

> connecticut and city of hartford should have leverage with owners who are

> talking to malloy about maybe bringing Nhl team here. and governor Malloy

 

> and other state and city political officers should use the leverage to get

> any body who wants to bring Nhl team here to pay for building arena. state

> of connecticut and city of hartford can help with infra structure and maybe

> get owners of team a deal on price of land to build arena on. but team

> should pay to build arena or at least pay 75 per cent of cost to build.

> cause if we are really solution to problem and owners and league want to be

> in connecticut and hartford then they should be willing to do it. if they

> aren't willing to do it then they are just looking to take advantage of

> desperate state or city and get arena built for them with some one elses

> money. screw that cause if a pro team owner isn't willing to pay for arena

> that his team is gonna make tons of money with from name rights and

> concessions and other stuff then getting a pro team isnt worth it

What are you talking about here? This jumble of words makes no sense.

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i will repeat it. if state of connecticut and city of hartford are a solution to a Nhl problem by being a better market than some of the crummy markets that Nhl teams are in right now than that gives governor malloy and other state political officials leverage on arena deal with owners who are interested in bringing a Nhl team here. governor malloy and poltical officials should use leverage to get owners interested in moving a Nhl team here to pay to build a new arena. state of connecticut and city of hartford will help with infra structure and maybe even help get team owners good deal on price of land to build new arena on. then owners pay to build new arena. if connecticut and hartford are gonna be so much better then the market the owners are in now than the owners should be willing to do that kind of deal. if the owners are not then they are just trying to take advantage of connecticut and hartford by getting the state and city to pay to build a new arena for the owners team.

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What you don't get is this isn't all about the NHL. This is about an *****et to Hartford crumbling in front of our eyes. If the state wants to own a profitable arena than they need to build a new one or continue to operate at a loss because of the delapitated conditions of the current one. In what world can you imagine an owner relocating to any market no matter how good it is if they have to pay for a building? If the state listend to you we'd have New Haven Coliseum 2.0

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PlainvilleWhale wrote:

> What you don't get is this isn't all about the NHL. This is about an *****et

> to Hartford crumbling in front of our eyes. If the state wants to own a

> profitable arena than they need to build a new one or continue to operate

> at a loss because of the delapitated conditions of the current one. In what

> world can you imagine an owner relocating to any market no matter how good

> it is if they have to pay for a building? If the state listend to you we'd

> have New Haven Coliseum 2.0

 

Its far beyond the NHL and honestly the process for the next NHL move/expansion is at least 2 to 3 years out (baring a drastic announcement). The reality is Hartford getting a pro team even with interested parties has to be at least 5 years out. 5 years of depreciation of the XL and the botox shots of small changes and improvements wont be enough. If a team comes great that would help production of a new arena even more. However there is still a chance a team never comes in the next decade. If there is no NHL team in a worse case scenario hartford will be even more of a ghost town during the non summer concert months. Cause every year they are losing an event to Mohegan/foxwoods/etc.

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i could be fine with state of connecticut paying for a major major renovation of Xl center or maybe even construction of new arena for UConn basketball and hockey and concerts. but if state of connecticut is taking risk of paying whole bill before Nhl team gets here then i dont want state giving sweetheart rent deals and naming rights money and huge concessions money deals to Nhl team for showing up after fact. that sort if thing is bull. but you just know that is what is gonna happen cause state is gonna be so desperate to get back in pro sports that our political leaders will just shower Nhl owner with money through sweet heart deals. and before we know it owners of pro team will be making threats about moving if arena isnt renovated or rent at arena isnt made lower or owner of pro team isnt given more money from concessions or name rights and that kind of stuff. i just hope malloy and political officials show smarts and backbone and pride and dont get taken for a ride.

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WhalerChad wrote:

> i could be fine with state of connecticut paying for a major major

> renovation of Xl center or maybe even construction of new arena for UConn

> basketball and hockey and concerts. but if state of connecticut is taking

> risk of paying whole bill before Nhl team gets here then i dont want state

> giving sweetheart rent deals and naming rights money and huge concessions

> money deals to Nhl team for showing up after fact. that sort if thing is

> bull. but you just know that is what is gonna happen cause state is gonna

> be so desperate to get back in pro sports that our political leaders will

> just shower Nhl owner with money through sweet heart deals. and before we

> know it owners of pro team will be making threats about moving if arena

> isnt renovated or rent at arena isnt made lower or owner of pro team isnt

> given more money from concessions or name rights and that kind of stuff. i

> just hope malloy and political officials show smarts and backbone and pride

> and dont get taken for a ride.

 

So we have a new arena and an NHL team wants to move in and you say no? Am I reading this right because that's insanity. If the team doesn't own the arena they pay rent, this is CT. An NHL team provides 40+ plus home dates that draws thousands of people to downtown businesses, works with local charities and exposes the city to national media outlets but you don't want them to intrude in our building? If every city had that attitude, pro sports would not exist.

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PlainvilleWhale wrote:"What you don't get is this isn't all about the NHL. This is about an *****et to Hartford crumbling in front of our eyes."

 

This amazingly obvious point for some reason seems to remain beyond the comprehension of many, & has for years. Your other point about huge amounts of tax dollars being flushed away on things most of the people paying for them don't want &/or will never use is also one that many agree with & have expressed before...only to fall on deaf ears.

 

Even leaving the NHL aside for the moment, it's difficult to imagine any other singular expenditure that could deliver such a large variety of positive aspects for Hartford than a new state-of-the-art arena, & on so many different levels for so many decades into the **ture.

 

PlainvilleWhale wrote:"An NHL team provides 40+ plus home dates that draws thousands of people to downtown businesses, works with local charities and exposes the city to national media outlets but you don't want them to intrude in our building? If every city had that attitude, pro sports would not exist."

 

This perplexing self-defeating attitude is so prevalent & unique to our region that it should just be renamed "Hartforditude" in honor of us.

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Here's the thing. If Malloy is truth**l about the NHL talks and the CRDA is actually in the planning stages of a new building than we either have to commit **lly to cater a potential owner or throw in the towel immediately. Both options obviously are arguable and have been argued in this region for years but we can't afford to play hardball with the NHL. If we go headstrong with a new building and show the league that our elected officials are willing to put in the work to cater to an NHL franchise. While doing that it at least puts us on good terms with the league (like Winnipeg) and if a deal falls through than there is goodwill between us and the league and (like Winnipeg) puts us on their radar. Now if we try to play Hardball like Chad somewhat suggested the league (who has all the leverage) will throw our proposals out like a used tissue and may never take us seriously. My point in all of this is that regardless of what our aspirations are we need a new building and whether or not we want an NHL franchise involves many factors, but we need to go all in or not at all.

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Hartfordyouremyhome wrote:

 

> This perplexing self-defeating attitude is so prevalent & unique to our

> region that it should just be renamed "Hartforditude" in honor of

> us.

 

See I don't think Chad actually has that attitude. I think he wants the Whale to return. What he's saying is that he's against public dollars catering to billionaire's franchises which is 100% understandable and in a sensable world would never happen. Problem is leagues have pinned cities against eachother and forces their hands into giving these owners new buildings to play in. In our case a new building is needed to keep a city afloat whether we let an owner use it or not.

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Like others here, I'm against the give-aways to billionaires that these new arenas represent. Some say that if other cities/states in worse shape than Hartford/Connecticut can build arenas, then we can do it, too. And that's true, we could do it. But should we? We could also say that if the team owner could build an arena in Boston, that could be done here as well.

 

Most private businesses do not get their facilities provided by the taxpayers, nor should they. If this was about a business that makes paperclips, we would expect them to build their own factory, but to attract a sports team, cities and states will spend hundreds of millions of dollars. And often they will have to continue to subsidize the operation of the team to keep them in the arena. (Phoenix and Florida come to mind.)

 

If having a team in Hartford makes sense from a business perspective, then an owner should have no problem putting up money towards building an arena. If an owner needs a free building, as well as revenues from all concessions, parking, advertising, naming rights, etc., then maybe it's not the right place for a team. And remember, it's not enough just to be better than teams like Phoenix and Florida. The team needs to make a profit from the regular season. That's something that half the league doesn't do right now.

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p4277 you made lots of great points. is building expensive new arena with state of connecticut money and giving sweet heart rent deals and lots of concession money and name rights money to owner of a Nhl team just to get Nhl team back here something state of connecticut should do? should state of connecticut really want to get in business with team in league like Nhl where half the teams in league dont make profit from regular season? it seems like reason owners of pro sports teams and especialy Nhl teams are all ways looking for states and citys to build them arenas and give them sweet rent deals and concession money deals and arena name rights money deals is cause just owning teams and selling tickets to teams games is not gonna be enough to make these sports owners profit. where owners hope to get money is by getting states and citys to pay for arenas and then rent teams arenas for sweet heart price and then hand the sports owners money from concessions and name rights and tax breaks and stuff. i love sports and i love hockey and i would love to have hartford whalers back in Nhl but is it best for connecticut and hartford if we have to public money catering to billionaire sports owners?

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also here is some thing else i been thinking. i been thinking a lot lately it is kind of sick and scary how a lot of us think that building a expensive new arena and getting Nhl team back is biggest and best way to make hartford great place again. was hartford never great city for 300 something years before civic center got built and whalers came to hartford? was hartford just great city for 20 something years whalers played here? i love sports and i love hockey and i love the hartford whalers but it makes me kind of sad to think that so many of us think that a arena and a pro sports team are like some magic wand for hartford. hartford was a great city for many many many years without arena or pro hockey team. i guess thats why i have been so mad lately about idea of state of connecticut building arena and then some billionaire Nhl team owner coming in to town and getting sweet heart rent deal and concession money deal and name rights deal and all the other stuff these owners end up asking for. that just seems like a billionare sports owner taking advantage of state of connecticut and city of hartford and how down we feel about state and city. i hate thinking that we feel like we have to cater to a potential Nhl owner to make hartford great again. i hate thinking state of connecticut cant play hardball with Nhl if we want to make hartford great again. anyway i am sorry for getting so upset about all of this stuff guys.

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