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Whaler 11

Trouble in Glendale?

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Huge trouble.

 

Simply put, if the city of Glendale decides to kick the Coyotes out...where could they go?

 

They could go to Quebec City, but I think the league's preference would be to put QC as an expansion team, with the $500M price tag.

They could go to Las Vegas, but that building isn't going to be ready for at least another year, and like QC, there is that $500M price tag that the NHL will have a very hard time giving up.

They could go to Seattle, but the building talks there are just that, and Key Arena, like Brooklyn except 40 years older, is really a basketball facility, not hockey.

 

So where else is there? H-A-R-T-F-O-R-D.

 

Might sound crazy, but tonight is enormous. We could be, as Howard Sr. told the booster club a couple of years back..."the solution to a problem".

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MarkH2919 wrote:

> Huge trouble.

>

> Simply put, if the city of Glendale decides to kick the Coyotes out...where

> could they go?

>

> They could go to Quebec City, but I think the league's preference would be

> to put QC as an expansion team, with the $500M price tag.

> They could go to Las Vegas, but that building isn't going to be ready for

> at least another year, and like QC, there is that $500M price tag that the

> NHL will have a very hard time giving up.

> They could go to Seattle, but the building talks there are just that, and

> Key Arena, like Brooklyn except 40 years older, is really a basketball

> facility, not hockey.

>

> So where else is there? H-A-R-T-F-O-R-D.

>

> Might sound crazy, but tonight is enormous. We could be, as Howard Sr.

> told the booster club a couple of years back..."the solution to a

> problem".

 

Yes, the league would prefer to place expansion teams in Las Vegas, Seattle, and Quebec, but if needed they will allow the Coyotes to move there if that makes sense. Similar to allowing the Thrashers to move to Winnipeg.

 

So where else is there? As has been said before, in addition to H-A-R-T-F-O-R-D, there is K-C, P-O-R-T-L-A-N-D, H-O-U-S-T-O-N, and H-A-M-I-L-T-O-N, among others.

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Let me ask you something...

 

Kansas City has been rumored for years. If the NHL really wanted to move to KC, wouldn't they have moved the Coyotes there at any of the other times the franchise has been in trouble?

 

Houston kicked the AHL to the curb to get more concerts. I think the only way they would welcome the NHL is if the owner of the Rockets (who also runs the arena) bought the team. Portland has the Blazers, and their owner, Paul Allen has no interest in the NHL. He, like the owner of the Rockets, runs the arena in Portland.

 

And stop with Hamilton. That would require approval from both the Sabres and the Maple Leafs, and...once again...if the league was really interested in Hamilton, they would have a team already. Remember, they HAD a team all but there a few years ago when Jim Balsillie tried to buy the Predators and move it there.

 

The haters keep throwing out cities that could be alternatives...yet none of them stick.

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Another thing to consider: The Canadian dollar is down again. Way down. Right now, a Canadian dollar is worth $0.82 US. NHL teams in Canada pay their biggest expense (player salaries) in US dollars. Their revenue is in Canadian dollars. Please explain how Hamilton (or Quebec City for that matter) would make sense for a relocation with that kind of economic situation in their country?

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I know that the cities I mentioned all have issues, otherwise they would have teams already. And remember that some cities that are not great markets have gotten teams. Are places like Phoenix, Raleigh, and Miami better markets than Quebec or Hartford? No. But Hartford has issues also. For the past 18 years, every time a team ran into problems, people around here have said that it was all but inevitable that the team would move here. I'm still waiting.

 

Keep in mind that the NHL does not move teams, nor decide where teams will be located. Team owners decide where they want their teams, the league simply approves or denies their wishes. If the Coyotes are to move, the owner(s) will decide where, or they will sell the team to someone who will make that decision. Has anyone heard that the Coyotes are for sale? If not, are the owners looking to move? Are they considering Hartford?

 

Until those questions are answered, I don't see anything to get excited about.

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It is my understanding that The current owner of the Coyotes was involved in talks to move the Islanders to Hartford. He was the one who thought he had a deal to purchase the Isles before Wang pulled the plug and sold the team to a third party. Since that time Hartford brought in the NHL's arena consultant and has come up with a plan to redo the XL. Since that time the Coyotes AHL team moved to Springy. Chew on that for a while.

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Hey, if it happens, I'm all for it. But we've had so many times where false hopes have been s*h*o*t down in the past 18 years that I won't believe anything until I'm in my seat watching the Whalers 2.0 in what was the Wolf Pack Arena.

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jerseydiehardwhaler wrote:

> Hartford is the best choice for the league, bottom line..

 

That isn't exactly true. We need a lot of pieces to fall perfectly into place. Also the league doesn't move teams. We need an owner that the league approves and has the capital to purchase a team if the Yotes even get booted from Glendale which was supposed to happen a few times already. As of right now we still have an embarr*****ingly outdated arena that will be a tough sell to the public while other markets (outside of Seattle) have new buildings ready or close to ready. The NHL won't give it's darling Seattle a team without an approved arena plan, no way would they allow an owner to move a team here when our plan hasn't even reached the state capitol.

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PlainvilleWhale wrote:

> jerseydiehardwhaler wrote:

> > Hartford is the best choice for the league, bottom line..

>

> That isn't exactly true. We need a lot of pieces to fall perfectly into place. Also

> the league doesn't move teams. We need an owner that the league approves and has the

> capital to purchase a team if the Yotes even get booted from Glendale which was

> supposed to happen a few times already. As of right now we still have an

> embarr*****ingly outdated arena that will be a tough sell to the public while other

> markets (outside of Seattle) have new buildings ready or close to ready. The NHL

> won't give it's darling Seattle a team without an approved arena plan, no way would

> they allow an owner to move a team here when our plan hasn't even reached the state

> capitol.

 

Well, the pieces are already falling into place.

 

1) The owner would be Barroway and the current ownership group in Phoenix, the same Barroway that had a handshake deal to buy the Islanders, only to have Wang renege on the deal.

 

2) The arena is outdated, but renovations would begin next summer, as the CRDA is about to control the entire XL (as I mentioned before on a different part of the board, Northland will do what they have to do to get the property they really want, which is the YMCA building overlooking Bushnell Park) The question is: Would you rather play in a new facility where you're not really wanted, drawing 11,000 a night, or play in a building that will be renovated around you and draw 14,000-15,000/night? Oh, and far as the "going to the state capitol", what I have heard, and this is from someone with pretty good connections at the Capitol, is that the renovations will be bonded, meaning it won't go through legislature.

 

3) The other buildings aren't ready. Vegas is a year away. KC, Houston, Portland and Hamilton all have their own issues. Quebec has a ready building, but a weak Canadian dollar.

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p4277 wrote:"So where else is there? As has been said before, in addition to H-A-R-T-F-O-R-D, there is K-C, P-O-R-T-L-A-N-D, H-O-U-S-T-O-N, and H-A-M-I-L-T-O-N, among others."

 

Haven't read all the comments in this thread yet, so some or all of this may be repetitive.

 

1) Hamilton, Ontario will not happen. The billionaire owners in Toronto & Buffalo wouldn't allow it. In a way, it's like having NHL teams in Boston & Hartford, then trying to shoehorn in another one somewhere between Sturbridge & Worcester.

 

2) Houston is not an NHL hockey town, & the fact the they've got so many people in the area means little. The Isles & Devils have literally millions of potential fans around them & historically have drawn poorly. As we know in Hartford all too well with the Rags, your customers must actually want your product for it to succeed.

 

3) Portland, Maine will get an NHL team before Portland, Oregon will. Portland is more of basketball city than is even Seattle, & the NHL wants Seattle. When/if they add Seattle, there certainly won't be 3 teams in the Pacific Northwest.

 

4) Kansas City's had a "new" arena sitting around for years, & you never hear a word from them about caring about bringing in the NHL, which they didn't really care about when they had it before. It's a small market whose sports dollars are already going to support the Chiefs & Royals.

 

5) Hartford. Who knows? Fortune 500 companies & international Whalers fan support aside, two NEW things that are very much in favor of Hartford are that independent, NHL-approved report that proved we easily have the fan base to support the NHL, & also that an NHL-acceptable arena can be re**rbished without needing to close.

 

Hartford will never get an expansion team, of course. But a team in an unexpected need of immediate relocation, well...We'd at least be in the mix.

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jerseydiehardwhaler wrote:

> Hartford is the best choice for the league, bottom line..

 

I don't see anyway they can move the Coyotes to any city which would have to play in the Eastern Conference. The 16/14 split is bad but 17/13 would be ridiculous. Since next year's schedule is obviously already done if they move before the beginning of the 15-16 season they will be staying west. After that with the foolish (nothing but a money grab) expansion talk things could easily change.

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nehckyfan wrote:

> jerseydiehardwhaler wrote:

> > Hartford is the best choice for the league, bottom line..

>

> I don't see anyway they can move the Coyotes to any city which would have to play in

> the Eastern Conference. The 16/14 split is bad but 17/13 would be ridiculous. Since

> next year's schedule is obviously already done if they move before the beginning of

> the 15-16 season they will be staying west. After that with the foolish (nothing but

> a money grab) expansion talk things could easily change.

 

When the Thrashers moved to Winnipeg, the league had two schedules made up, one with Atlanta in it, and one with Winnipeg in it. Why wouldn't this have a similar situation?

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MarkH2919 wrote:

> nehckyfan wrote:

> > jerseydiehardwhaler wrote:

> > > Hartford is the best choice for the league, bottom line..

> >

> > I don't see anyway they can move the Coyotes to any city which would have to

> play in

> > the Eastern Conference. The 16/14 split is bad but 17/13 would be ridiculous.

> Since

> > next year's schedule is obviously already done if they move before the beginning

> of

> > the 15-16 season they will be staying west. After that with the foolish (nothing

> but

> > a money grab) expansion talk things could easily change.

>

> When the Thrashers moved to Winnipeg, the league had two schedules made up, one with

> Atlanta in it, and one with Winnipeg in it. Why wouldn't this have a similar

> situation?

 

1) I think that was more anticipated and:

 

2) If you recall Winnipeg actually stayed in the Southeast division of the Eastern Conference for at least the two seasons after their move.

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Doesn't the NHL revisit the conference alignment's at the end of this year anyways per the CBA? WPG played in ATL spot for 2 seasons, presumably if the Coyotes did relocate a team would only have to spend 1 season out of place.

 

But I still don't think it's logistically possible to relocate them at this point, we're probably looking at a lame duck season or perhaps even 2.

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Whaleofatime wrote:

> Doesn't the NHL revisit the conference alignment's at the end of this year

> anyways per the CBA? WPG played in ATL spot for 2 seasons, presumably if

> the Coyotes did relocate a team would only have to spend 1 season out of

> place.

>

> But I still don't think it's logistically possible to relocate them at this

> point, we're probably looking at a lame duck season or perhaps even 2.

 

Well, first thing is first, and that's the Glendale City Council voting to evict the Coyotes. After that, anything is possible. Remember one thing, people...what Gary Bettman says to a group of cameras at a podium in the United Center...is probably completely different from what's really going on behind the scenes.

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MarkH2919 wrote:

> Whaleofatime wrote:

> > Doesn't the NHL revisit the conference alignment's at the end of this year

> > anyways per the CBA? WPG played in ATL spot for 2 seasons, presumably if

> > the Coyotes did relocate a team would only have to spend 1 season out of

> > place.

> >

> > But I still don't think it's logistically possible to relocate them at this

> > point, we're probably looking at a lame duck season or perhaps even 2.

>

> Well, first thing is first, and that's the Glendale City Council voting to evict the

> Coyotes. After that, anything is possible. Remember one thing, people...what Gary

> Bettman says to a group of cameras at a podium in the United Center...is probably

> completely different from what's really going on behind the scenes.

 

Absolutely. Always skeptical when his lips are actually moving.

 

One of many possibilities if they are actually evicted may be a move back to America West in downtown Phoenix. Obviously it's a bad arena for hockey with some aw**l site lines but it could be a solution for a lame duck season.

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Either way, I think it's rather safe to guess that the Coyotes are not long for Arizona. They're going to move (again), question is where.

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jerseydiehardwhaler wrote:

> There was a study done very recently by the NHL approved company that state

> several times throughout the report that Hartford in fact was a viable NHL

> market

 

JerseY;

 

I'm not saying that it isn't. It's just that at this late date, with next year's schedule already done there is no logistical way, to have the Arizona Coyotes move to Hartford and play in the Pacific Division of the NHL for the 2015-16 season. Winnipeg in the Southeast for 2 years was bad enough but at least it was in the same conference.

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jerseydiehardwhaler wrote:

> I understand your point necky, but whalers had no were to go either..

 

But their move was announced before the end of the season (and the final schedule makeup for the next season) and they didn't move 2,500 miles away and effect the competitive structure of the league.

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MarkH2919 wrote:

> Whaleofatime wrote:

> > Doesn't the NHL revisit the conference alignment's at the end of this year

> > anyways per the CBA? WPG played in ATL spot for 2 seasons, presumably if

> > the Coyotes did relocate a team would only have to spend 1 season out of

> > place.

> >

> > But I still don't think it's logistically possible to relocate them at this

> > point, we're probably looking at a lame duck season or perhaps even 2.

>

> Well, first thing is first, and that's the Glendale City Council voting to evict the

> Coyotes. After that, anything is possible. Remember one thing, people...what Gary

> Bettman says to a group of cameras at a podium in the United Center...is probably

> completely different from what's really going on behind the scenes.

 

 

Just want to clarify but I don't think they're voting to evict the team. They're voting to terminate the 15 year/$15M per yr lease agreement with the Yotes ownership because IA won't renegotiate.

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