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Whaler 11

Trouble in Glendale?

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Somebody raised a very good point. When the Thrashers were sold to True North, that didn't come together over some dinner and a few Molsons at a Winnipeg steakhouse. It took a while...nobody in the media or anywhere else knew it was happening until right before. That same approach could be happening here.

 

In other words, I wouldn't totally dismiss Hartford like you usually do. Remember...what is said in public and what is said in private are almost always two different things. Especially if Bettman is involved.

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P4 Hartford's not on the radar to posters on HFBoards and Bleacher Report, who cares!?

 

What matters is the NHL knows that we have a market here with an NHL-approved arena plan which is just a formality, a group of potential owners AND a brand that has only exponentially grown more popular over the past 2 decades.

 

Before you go to the well and say "Well we would have heard rumors of the owner by now", no David Thomson was a $20B secret up until the Jets made the announcement. For all we know Ray Dalio, who is Malloy's friend could be our sugar daddy and we likely wouldn't know until it happened.

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MarkH2919 wrote:

> Somebody raised a very good point. When the Thrashers were sold to True

> North, that didn't come together over some dinner and a few Molsons at a

> Winnipeg steakhouse. It took a while...nobody in the media or anywhere

> else knew it was happening until right before. That same approach could be

> happening here.

>

> In other words, I wouldn't totally dismiss Hartford like you usually do.

> Remember...what is said in public and what is said in private are almost

> always two different things. Especially if Bettman is involved.

 

Yes, it took a while. The NHL doesn't have a while. It's the middle of June, and if the team is going to move there is a lot to be done in just a few months. I'm sure there's a lot going on right now to get this resolved. The less that needs to be changed, the easier it will be to get ready for next season. If they negotiate a new agreement to stay in the Phoenix market would be easiest. Moving to a location in the western conference would be easier than moving to the east.

 

But moving anywhere out of the Phoenix market will be a big job. Scheduling will be a big issue. All other NHL teams have to travel to a new city. The arena in that city will have to find 41 dates in a schedule that like has already been made for the year. In Hartford, the WolfPack would need to be relocated quickly. A marketing effort would need to be started from scratch immediately.

 

So there's no time for lengthy marketing surveys. Whatever happens will happen fast. And that often leads to poorly executed, sloppy results. Carolina Hurricanes are a prime example of this, and they had more time than the Coyotes have.

 

If I had to bet on it, I'd say that they will find a way to stay in the Phoenix area for another year. A lame duck season would ****, but there's really no time to do a move right. And doing it wrong will be worse than another year where they are.

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Whaleofatime wrote:

> P4 Hartford's not on the radar to posters on HFBoards and Bleacher Report,

> who cares!?

>

> What matters is the NHL knows that we have a market here with an

> NHL-approved arena plan which is just a formality, a group of potential

> owners AND a brand that has only exponentially grown more popular over the

> past 2 decades.

>

> Before you go to the well and say "Well we would have heard rumors of

> the owner by now", no David Thomson was a $20B secret up until the

> Jets made the announcement. For all we know Ray Dalio, who is Malloy's

> friend could be our sugar daddy and we likely wouldn't know until it

> happened.

 

Yes, opinions on other message boards are not facts. But neither are the opinions on this board.

 

I'm just raising issues that people here re**se to see. For 18 years, I've been hearing that Hartford is such a great hockey market that a new team is right around the corner. If that were true we would have had a team long ago. When the North Stars moved, Minnesota got a new team quickly. We are still waiting.

 

When the Coyotes situation blew up this week, people here were saying that not only was Hartford a great option, it was the only option. That is simply not true. There are a lot of possible ways that this can be resolved, and it doesn't look like Hartford will be part of it. If I'm wrong, I'll be very happy about it, and I'll buy you a beer at the game to celebrate.

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"When the Coyotes situation blew up this week, people here were saying that not only was Hartford a great option, it was the only option. That is simply not true. There are a lot of possible ways that this can be resolved, and it doesn't look like Hartford will be part of it. If I'm wrong, I'll be very happy about it, and I'll buy you a beer at the game to celebrate."

 

And in the Atlanta situation, nobody thought Winnipeg would be part of it....suddenly...BOOM, there they were.

 

Again, you're taking what media people say as gospel. What they are being told, and what is actually going on could be two completely different things.

 

You are right about the scheduling thing. And you're right about the WolfPack thing. So yes, it's possible...I'd even go as far as to say it's likely, that somehow, someway, the Coyotes will play one more season out there, be it Phoenix, or Glendale, or wherever. All we can hope is that the CRDA is talking to them about possibly moving out here....even if it's in time for 2016/17.

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jerseydiehardwhaler wrote:

> I think we're reaching how to make Hartford as non viable as possible but

> in reality they are the best spot period..

 

Can you explain why? Just saying it doesn't make it so.

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Everyone is pointing out why we're are a better place, the arena issue will be a non issue soon..

 

 

Vegas= has owner, needs team to buy

Quebec=has owner, needs team to buy

Portland=has owner, needs team to buy

Seattle=has owner, needs team to buy

 

Phoenix= not for sale..

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jerseydiehardwhaler wrote:

> Everyone is pointing out why we're are a better place, the arena issue will

> be a non issue soon..

>

>

> Vegas= has owner, needs team to buy

> Quebec=has owner, needs team to buy

> Portland=has owner, needs team to buy

> Seattle=has owner, needs team to buy

>

> Phoenix= not for sale..

 

Who is 'Everyone'? I haven't seen anyone say that other than here on this board.

 

The arena issue will not be resolved soon, at least not as I would define 'soon'. How to pay for the XL renovations has not been figured out, and even if they got that done quickly, those renovations will take a long time. Meanwhile, Quebec and Las Vegas are building brand new arenas that will be open before the XL is re-done.

 

You don't know that the Coyotes won't be sold. The situation is so fluid that almost anything can happen. Besides, one of the advantages that people cite about Hartford is that there are investors waiting to buy a team here. If that's true, then Hartford is also in your category of having an owner but no team to buy.

 

And moving to the Eastern Conference may be a bigger deal than you think. The league will likely give preference to a Western location over Eastern.

 

A lot of people are overlooking the fact that the economy in Connecticut is poor, and getting worse. The business climate is terrible, and NHL teams are businesses. Taxes are high and the cost of living is high. Will there be enough people with enough money to support at a team at NHL prices?

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The economy in the country is poor, what's everyone else's excuse..

 

The arena will be renovated over 3 seasons, it was in the report..

 

Also there was a study done to show that it can be supported like it was in the past..

 

To say any city has an edge on Hartford because how you feel is wrong, there was a study for a reason that's enough proof for me, there is a better chance today than past times..

 

Also they have said the project will be bonded like all over the country..

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jerseydiehardwhaler wrote:

> The economy in the country is poor, what's everyone else's excuse..

>

> The arena will be renovated over 3 seasons, it was in the report..

>

> Also there was a study done to show that it can be supported like it was in

> the past..

>

> To say any city has an edge on Hartford because how you feel is wrong,

> there was a study for a reason that's enough proof for me, there is a

> better chance today than past times..

>

> Also they have said the project will be bonded like all over the country..

 

We aren't some special place because we have a state **nded report. Seattle, QC, Portland and even Vegas have all shown they are solid markets and the NHL clearly wants to be in Seattle and LV. I really don't understand how you can be so blind to the fact this Coyotes news doesn't line up with our arena plan which is in the infancy stage.

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I guess we're all blind in our view of it.. But to say one city had an edge or deserves a team more because our economy or how can we support a team.. We are in line with other cities on all fronts and better than most..

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p4277 wrote: "When the Coyotes situation blew up this week, people here were saying that not only was Hartford a great option, it was the only option. That is simply not true."

 

Did I miss something? Has even one person posted the Hartford was the “only” option? If so, I haven’t read it.

 

The truth is that playing ‘Devil’s Advocate’ can, at times, be not only a good thing, but beneficial too. But playing Devil’s Advocate over & over just for the sake of doing it is hard to understand.

 

Especially when some of those who do consistently ignore most of the points they’re trying to counter while cherry-picking anything, no matter how insignificant, that they can still somehow attach to their point.

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"We aren't some special place because we have a state **nded report. Seattle, QC, Portland and even Vegas have all shown they are solid markets and the NHL clearly wants to be in Seattle and LV. I really don't understand how you can be so blind to the fact this Coyotes news doesn't line up with our arena plan which is in the infancy stage."

 

The NHL wants Seattle, but nothing to this point indicates Seattle really wants the NHL. Seattle wants the NBA, and right now...it doesn't appear that there is a NBA team available.

 

Vegas will get a team, the question is will the BOG part with the $500M expansion fee for the Coyotes to move there. My guess is no.

 

Our arena plan is **rther along than you think, and it's much **rther along than it was...even 6 months ago. Again, if the NHL would allow a new team in Seattle to play in KeyArena, which when renovated in the 1990s became a basketball first venue...there is no question that they would allow a NHL team to play in the existing XL, as the building gets renovated and transformed around them.

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Until new info comes along, nothing will change. So let’s separate Fact & Opinion:

Fact: The Coyotes are suddenly in a very precarious position with regard to remaining in Arizona

Opinion: They’ll likely move in a relatively soon

F: Quebec wants the NHL & has built a new arena, but the NHL not long ago told it not to build an arena on its account

F: Quebec is in Canada

O: Neither the NHL, the majority of its players nor NBC wants to return to Quebec

F: Kansas City has a somewhat new arena

F: KC has expressed little interest in the NHL, & the Chiefs & Royals both currently play in small market KC

O: Hamilton, caught between two teams owned by billionaires, & having failed multiple times at the NHL already, is out

O: Small market Milwaukee has expressed little interest in the NHL, currently has the NFL, MLB, NBA & is a 90 minute drive to Chicago. They’re an unlikely NHL host

O: Houston has the NFL, MLB, NBA & has also shown little interest in the NHL. Also unlikely

O: While Seattle is lukewarm to the NHL, the NHL wants Seattle

F: Seattle’s priority is the NBA & its current facility is not conducive to watching hockey

O: Seattle’s relative disinterest leads to imagining they’re a relocation option, as it’s unlikely they’d pay $500M in expansion fees. Also already in the West. Strongest competition for Hartford & others for AZ

O: Las Vegas is getting a team, but likely would pay the expansion fee which rules out the Coyotes

O: Portland, OR. Highly unlikely, especially with Seattle still NHL unsettled

F: Hartford has the now-shown ability to re**rbish to an NHL-acceptable arena while games are played, & Hartford has the now-shown ability to support the NHL, as most knew all along

O: Hartford rarely can get out of its own way &, has shown an uncanny ability to make the completely wrong call the vast majority of the time regarding sports

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MarkH2919 wrote:

 

> Our arena plan is **rther along than you think, and it's much **rther along

> than it was...even 6 months ago. Again, if the NHL would allow a new team

> in Seattle to play in KeyArena, which when renovated in the 1990s became a

> basketball first venue...there is no question that they would allow a NHL

> team to play in the existing XL, as the building gets renovated and

> transformed around them.

 

You said it yourself that the NHL want's to be in Seattle. No doubt they will gladly help subsidize any loss of revenue by playing in Key Arena as long as they can secure that market. Would they do that in Hartford? Would they go through all of the trouble to put a western conference team on the east coast for a market they clearly aren't as crazy about? If they were okay with putting the team in the east does the fluctuating Canadian dollar scare them so much that they'd p***** over a hockey crazy market with a brand new (not renovated) arena that is ready to host NHL hockey at the start of the season? Do you really think the Coyotes will be playing in Hartford next season?

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Glendale called the NHL's bluff perfectly. They'll be forced to come back to the table with their tails tucked between their legs since no preferred relocation cities are quite ready/it would be a rush job anyways and whatever they end up making in the arena management fee is better than $0, which is what they'd receive in Phoenix + they still get all the revenue streams.

 

I think the question is what the length will be. 1-2 or 3 years? Or 2, 1 year options setup like the Wolf Pack have?

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"You said it yourself that the NHL want's to be in Seattle. No doubt they will gladly help subsidize any loss of revenue by playing in Key Arena as long as they can secure that market. Would they do that in Hartford? Would they go through all of the trouble to put a western conference team on the east coast for a market they clearly aren't as crazy about? If they were okay with putting the team in the east does the fluctuating Canadian dollar scare them so much that they'd p***** over a hockey crazy market with a brand new (not renovated) arena that is ready to host NHL hockey at the start of the season? Do you really think the Coyotes will be playing in Hartford next season?"

 

It takes two to tango, however. Quebec wants the NHL badly, but the NHL has been lukewarm, at best, about going to Quebec. The NHL wants Seattle, but Seattle has been lukewarm, at best, about getting the NHL. See what I mean? Also remember that the players *****ociation will have a say about a move, and when the original Nordiques were in Quebec in the 90s, many players compared Quebec City to Siberia. Granted, Hartford didn't fare all that much better (remember Kelly Chase referring to Hartford as "Shawshank"), but it is an American market, with no such concerns about the dollar. Our dollar will be worth the same tomorrow as it is today. You can't say that about Quebec City, new arena or no new arena.

 

Now...Do I think the Coyotes will be playing in Hartford next season? I think there is a chance. I think a more realistic possibility is that the Coyotes play one last lame d u c k season in Arizona before coming here for the 2016/17 season. That would give everyone time to get all things lined up, both on the Coyotes end, and on our end (read: season tickets, bonding for the renovations, etc)

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"Now...Do I think the Coyotes will be playing in Hartford next season? I think there is a chance. I think a more realistic possibility is that the Coyotes play one last lame d u c k season in Arizona before coming here for the 2016/17 season. That would give everyone time to get all things lined up, both on the Coyotes end, and on our end (read: season tickets, bonding for the renovations, etc)"

 

I agree that the most likely scenario is that the Coyotes will play in Arizona, (not necessarily Glendale), next season. Putting together a move at this late date would be a fiasco. It would give all parties some breathing room, and enable everyone to make care**l, rational decisions. Of course sports teams, leagues, and cities aren't known for being care**l and rational, so anything could happen.

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It is very early in the process, however. The Coyotes have officially filed their injunction against the City of Glendale, so *****uming that is heard soon (it would have to be, I'd think), that could put the whole move talk to bed, at least for the very s h o r t term.

 

Needless to say...it will be very interesting to see how this thing in Glendale plays out.

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why do people keep comparing thrashers getting bought and moved to winnipeg with a team like coyotes or panthers or hurricanes maybe getting bought and moved to hartford? in winnipeg there was guy who was pretty rich lawyer with family that owned a bunch of winnipeg busineses. and that guy bought Ihl minnesota moose in 1996 and moved them to winnipeg so that winnipeg would have pro hockey again after Nhl jets left. and that guy was always hoping to figure out a way to get Nhl team back to winnipeg and he knew he needed new arena to do it so he started company in 2001 to work on getting new arena built. and land that guy wanted to build arena on was owned by billionaire named thomson who is supposed to be richest canadian in world. so the guy from winnipeg asked thomson guy to join arena company and thomson did. arena opened in 2004 and Ahl manitoba moose played in it and the winnipeg guy kept thinking of trying to get Nhl team back for winnipeg. his name is chipman. chipman got thomson guy interested in helping to get a Nhl team and they came close to buying coyotes in 2009 and moving coyotes to winnipeg. when rumors started about thrashers being for sale later in 2009 there were all so rumors about chipman and thomson making offer to buy thrashers and moving them from atlanta to winnipeg. after a couple years of rumors chipman and thomson bought thrashers. i wish we had a chipman and thomson here in hartford. guys who had the kind of money and power and connections and pull to buy a Ahl team and then build a brand new arena and then make offers on Nhl teams until they got one. all we have here is rumors instead of really rich and success**l business guys who put up the money needed to build a arena and buy a team and get things done. who is chipman in hartford? who is thomson in hartford? how does winnipeg have these guys and hartford doesnt? so aggravating.

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