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Whale2WOLF

RUMOR from Bridgeport

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TheWhaleGuy123 wrote :

> I wouldn't rule out the Rangers wanting to switch affiliations and going to

> Bridgeport. Charles Wang hasn't proven himself a savvy businessman (15

> years for Rick D anyone??) lol

>

> Maybe there would be a swap.

 

While there is ample evidence to show that Charles Wang not an expert on the sport of hockey, stating that he is not a savvy businessman is ridiculous. Say what you will about his business practices, he has been savvy enough to make a significant amount of money.

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MarkH2919 wrote :

> Now...before we sshoot down the Islanders/Rangers AHL swap, let's consider

> for just a minute.

>

> Is it possible that the Islanders want to do this to judge Hartford as a

> **ture NHL home? Of course, this is providing they don't get a new arena in

> Uniondale? Maybe Baldwin would want to work with Charles Wang and maybe

> Wang will float HB some coin to get out of the hole?

>

> I'm not saying it will happen...but that is, at the very least, a

> possibility.

 

Charles Wang Management runs the Webster Bank Arena in Bridgeport. The Sound Tigers have a lease at the arena which runs until 2021. Hartford does not have a new arena. Until these things change, there is no possibility of what you have mentioned happening.

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Biggie1083 wrote :

> Do any of you actually think Wang wants to move to Hartford? It would

> literally be a lateral move from N*****au to the XL, and he would never be

> able to anything like his proposed "Lighthouse Project".

The odds are very slim, but I wouldn't rule it out totally. A renovated XL Center could entice him.

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WolfPackFan1998,

 

We have been over this several times. I totally get where you are coming from. You have totally shut off your love for Hartford Hockey based on a name and colors. Do you really think that you will be able to flip it back on again and buy season tickets? Obviously you have found something else to occupy your time. Even if you were able to do this. How many people are out there like you??? Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say 300.

 

Like I said I see where you are coming from. Howard came in said it doesn't matter what the current AHL fan base thinks. I want to bring back all the NHL fan base. Yes, I could see it coming. The AHL fans leave because they are angry and the SOME of the NHL fans come back. SOME of those who did got bored of AHL hockey cause it is not what they want.

There are exceptions to this but for the most part if people were going to truly support Hartford AHL Hockey they already were before the rebrand.

 

Your missing a couple things here though man. There is no guarantee that the WolfPack do come back or that the NYR leave their affiliation here in Hartford. People like yourself boycotting could be the deciding factor in the team leaving. They don't know why your boycotting. They may think your a Ranger hater.

Bottom line MSG did not want to pay 24k/game for rent. Who could blame them. Howard didn't want to either. But finally agreed hoping to make Hartford Hockey better. Does that excuse him for the way WolfPack fans were treated, No. But you don't get the excuse of boycotting Hartford Hockey because of him either.

I've spent the last 2 seasons trying to have the pride in the Whale that I did in the WolfPack. This past weekend a found a little bit of it. To bad you missed it. Keep in mind, if Hartford Hockey becomes no more, there is no way of going back in time to enjoy what you had before it left.

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"Does that excuse him for the way WolfPack fans were treated, No."

 

What the **** did he do to the WolfPack fans?

 

We have been over this time and time again. There were not enough WolfPack fans for him to "mistreat". If there were, he wouldn't be here in the first place, because MSG would not have felt the need to bring him in to *****ist.

 

Quite honestly, I am fed up with this whole "Howard mistreated the WolfPack fans" bull. Any WolfPack fan that had been in that arena in the 4 years before WSE came in had to think that something was going to be done to try to pump some life into what was in truth a dead fanbase. And if they had a clue, they would have known that Howard was going to try to put Whale or Whalers into the equation. Seriously, it's not rocket science. So, the reality is that Howard changed something that was clearly not working, and tried to please everyone. He tried to please the people that wanted the colors and BB and all of the things that were always *****ociated with Hartford hockey before the WolfPack arrived, and he tried to please the people that felt that "Hartford Whalers" should be saved for the NHL, if the day ever comes when the NHL has a franchise in Hartford again. The number of people...so called WolfPack fans, that he truly "pissed off" might be 100. If it's even that many.

 

It's not like he kicked people out of their seats. It's not like he told Larry, the #1 WolfPack fan to scram. Do you guys think that firing Don Steele is "mistreating" the WolfPack fan? Seriously, what did Howard Baldwin do, other than dropping a brand that wasn't working, to "mistreat" the WolfPack fan?

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Marks complaint aside for me, thats nice trying to reason with him W2W. I wish reason was an 'a-ha' moment for many people but I dont have my hopes up about WP98 getting 'IT'.

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I don't mind W2W trying to reason with him, that's fine. But until WPF98 realizes that the WolfPack never really went anywhere, any reasoning, sadly, will be for naught.

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MarkH2919 wrote :

> I don't mind W2W trying to reason with him, that's fine. But until WPF98

> realizes that the WolfPack never really went anywhere, any reasoning,

> sadly, will be for naught.

 

 

Well then somebody better tell Mr. Br***** Bonanza, as he said the Wolf Pack is dead. But, if that's true, then who's currently awaiting their 2nd round opponents? Because if the WP is dead, then it sure as h**** isn't the Whale.

 

I also noticed in a previous post you said that anyone with a clue shouldn't have been surprised that Baldwin would change the name to Whale or Whalers (I'm paraphrasing), and I can only say thank you. Thank you for finally recognizing that Baldwin was changing the name NO MATTER WHAT!!! I've said and will continue to say that the WP could've sold out the XL Center 20 TIMES OVER, and Baldwin was still changing the name.

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But you still don't get it. If the WolfPack had sold out the XL Center 20 times over, Baldwin wouldn't be here. Because there would have been no need for the rebrand.

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"We have been over this time and time again. There were not enough WolfPack fans for him to "mistreat""

 

The Hartford Hockey fan base was struggling your right. Still is! So whether there was 1 WP fan or 20,000 fans they can still be mistreated. Losing one fan in this situation is too many. Now as impossible is that statement sounds that should have been a priority along with bringing in new fans or bringing back old fans.

Howard started the season as the WolfPack and he should have used that year the smooth things over with the WolfPack fan base. Getting all his Whale in a row for this season. Doing the Whale bowl this year. Selling Whale season tickets for an entire off season before people see what a Whale crowd will be like. The Whale Bowl would have been a lot more success**l.(we had nicer weather)

As much as I would have hated seeing the team rebranded this season. It would not have left the sour taste in my mouth that I had the way things went down last season.

 

Mark, my last post had a lot of good things to say. And you have to take the one sentence out of the whole thing you don't like and go off on it? Spitting on WolfPack fans?? Seriously get over it. If the fans from both brands supported the team we would be getting somewhere. But to keep slamming each others brand is not going to get us any closer to that.

 

For Hartford Hockey to survive. Fans have to stop thinking of reasons not to attend hockey games and start thinking of reasons they should!

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You have to realize that I'm tired of the Baldwin bashing from WolfPack fans, as we have found out he saved this team. I'll say that again. SAVED......THIS......TEAM. The Rangers were outta here in 2010, and the WolfPack would have been history anyway. You have to realize that Baldwin changed the brand as soon as he possibly could, had he been given control of the team earlier, he would have changed the brand earlier. So, in other words, you ended up with 11 more games under the WolfPack brand then Baldwin wanted. Be thank**l for that. And as for the WolfPack fans he "mistreated", he didn't do anything to "mistreat" them. It's not like he took their season tickets away, it's not like he kicked Larry to the curb. I am still waiting for examples of how he "mistreated" the WolfPack fans. For 18 months, I've waited, and I have yet to get a legitimate reason.

 

When a restaurant isn't making money, they change things up...they change the menu, they maybe spruce up the decor, maybe they add entertainment, maybe they change the head chef. They do whatever they can do to get more people through the door.

 

Howard, in a way, had the same problem, only his issue was he couldn't change the decor, and he couldn't change the head chef, because he did not have the authority to do so. But what he could do...in truth, the ONLY thing he could do...was rebrand the team. And, whether you like it or not, it's worked. Granted, it hasn't worked in the leaps and bounds we all thought, but it has worked.

 

So, once again...when the WolfPack fan like you complains about how Baldwin is "mistreating" you and your fellow WolfPack fans, I'll keep going back to the same thing...if there were more of you, MSG would not have felt the need to bring Baldwin in, and you'd still have your precious WolfPack name. So, in reality...where your blame should truly go...is the person you look at in the mirror each morning.

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"as we have found out he saved this team. I'll say that again. SAVED......THIS......TEAM. The Rangers were outta here in 2010"

 

Maybe.......Maybe not. I believe it was Biggie that said that was not a for sure thing.

 

"you ended up with 11 more games under the WolfPack brand then Baldwin wanted. Be thank**l for that."

 

If you don't see that things could be better right now if Howard made good with the fans he inherited for 1 season before he tried to get the Whaler fans back with a much better organized rebrand and WhaleBowl, then I don't expect you to understand.

 

"he didn't do anything to "mistreat" them. It's not like he took their season tickets away, it's not like he kicked Larry to the curb. I am still waiting for examples of how he "mistreated" the WolfPack fans."

 

Ok hear it comes listen close.......No he didn't take away our season tickets. But some benefits were gone(may not have been his fault) But what is his fault is he undersold our season tickets, taking away value from buying them. Why should people have spent $880 on season tickets if they could have bought $7 tickets for whatever game they wanted and sit wherever? Howard has mistreated all Hartford Hockey fans with every promise he makes that he doesn't deliver on.

 

Mark on the other side of this, when the WolfPack arrived what did they do to mistreat Whaler fans? They didn't take anything away. It left before they got here. ???????????????????

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Howard was not willing to put Larry on the screen in a WolfPack jersey. What a shame. The one fan that has more true love for Hartford Hockey then any of us. And Howard was not willing to over look what jersey Larry was wearing.

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"When a restaurant isn't making money, they change things up...they change the menu, they maybe spruce up the decor, maybe they add entertainment, maybe they change the head chef. They do whatever they can do to get more people through the door. "

 

Yes but they don't switch the menu and decor to everything that was popular in the 80's. They make it modern with and 80's twist. That is not what Howard did.

 

"where your blame should truly go...is the person you look at in the mirror each morning."

 

Come on now, that statement is unfair for any brand/team. You can not blame the people that show up every night for the people who aren't.

 

If that's the case don't blame Karmonos or Betmen or the state of CT. Blame yourself for the Whalers leaving. Give me a break!

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Mark its your fault that there are not enough fans at games for Howard to make money right now. Wait a minute it is your fault.......You don't have season tickets. No don't blame the economy or lack of **nds. It's ALL YOUR FAULT! IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT! Look in the mirror IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!

 

Do you see how dumb your reasoning is? Or should I keep going.

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It still comes down to the basic point which has been made over and over and over and over again. And you're too god damn stupid to put it together.

 

HAD THERE BEEN MORE WOLFPACK FANS HOWARD WOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN BROUGHT IN!!!!!!

 

How the **** many times does that have to be said before it gets through your thick god damn head??????

 

If the brand wasn't changed, hockey would be dead here. D-E-A-D. It's on life support now, but it would be dead without the rebrand. Howard did what he thought he had to do to energize the market. To a certain extent, it has worked. Things are much better than they were at the end of the 2009/10 season. You said that yourself. There is much room for improvement, that's true.

 

You had to see the numbers decreasing as each season went on. Sa****ay night games drawing such enormous numbers like 1,754 and 2,893. These are Sa****ay night games, what has historically been the best attended hockey night in this city. And the WolfPack couldn't draw 3,000. For someone that claims to be this big fan of Hartford hockey, wouldn't you look around at the rows and rows of empty seats and say "wow, there's a problem here?"

 

As for your season ticket claim, You do realize that I could walk up to the box office at 6:50 the night of almost any WolfPack game I wanted, pay $10 or whatever it was for an upper level seat, and sit in the lower bowl wherever I wanted???? How the **** is that any different than what Baldwin did? Oh yeah...it's not any different, but because it's Baldwin, you have a problem with that. So your season ticket claim doesn't exist because AEG did the same damn thing. Nice try.

 

I'm still.....STILL waiting to hear what Baldwin did to "mistreat" you WolfPack fans (again, I flatly re**se to believe you were ever a Whalers fan)....something tells me it's going to be a long, long wait.

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"If you don't see that things could be better right now if Howard made good with the fans he inherited for 1 season before he tried to get the Whaler fans back with a much better organized rebrand and WhaleBowl, then I don't expect you to understand."

 

You have absolutely no idea if this is true or not. Again, Howard wanted to rebrand the team. No two ways about that, he has said that himself over and over again. He also wanted to rebrand the team as soon as he possibly could, he has also said this over and over again, and if he had taken over the team in say...June instead of September, the team would have been rebranded over the offseason, and there would have been no games under the WolfPack brand in 2010/11. So, in truth, you ended up with 11 more games under the WolfPack brand then Baldwin wanted. But, because of the timing of him coming in, he had to rebrand mid-stream. Considering how the attendance went up rather dramatically after the rebrand, I'm pretty sure Howard would tell you that his decision to rebrand as soon as possible was the correct decision. And nobody can predict a year into the **ture, especially when it comes to weather, so it's completely unfair to say that having the WhaleBowl would have been better this year because the weather was better. How the **** did we know in February of 2011 that the weather would be better this year? Easy to second guess that now, kind of like Monday Morning Quarterback.

 

Bottom line is this...more WolfPack fans = no Baldwin and no rebrand. The math isn't difficult. Unless you're W2W that is.

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W2W Mark on the other side of this, when the WolfPack arrived what did they do to mistreat Whaler fans? They didn't take anything away. It left before they got here. ???????????????????

 

Had they not mistreated Whaler fans by stripping the place and just expecting us to become Ranger fans maybe more would have stayed.

How stupid was that to expect us to worship the Rangers right off the bat!?

 

Incredibly stupid maybe as stupid as someone rebranding the team the Whale and expecting everyone to like it. I think what we are all doing here in these Brand Infighting threads is realizing that HIND SIGHT IS 20/20

 

MSG probably thought there was a strong Ranger fan base here.

They were wrong.

 

WSE probably thought there was a strong Whaler fan base here that would f l o c k to an AHL look a like Whaler team.

They were wrong.

 

You dont know until you know, and now that we all know its a little hard to point the finger at MSG and WSE, at the very least I think they tried and failed, but God in this market who the **** can succeed???? Answer that one!

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Hind sight is definitely 20/20, Evo...however, nobody can question that if the WolfPack had higher attendance numbers that MSG would not have felt the need to bring Baldwin in to fix things. We can hem and haw and insult and criticize and talk about this until we're all blue in the face, that's the bottom line in a nuts****.

 

Again, the math isn't hard.

 

More WolfPack fans = no Baldwin + no rebrand.

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More WolfPack fans = no Baldwin + no rebrand.

 

No question on that, what always boggles my mind is any WolfPack Ranger fan who hates the rebrand and the Whaler name needs to look no **rther than the ORG that allowed the changes and that is none other than Ranger Nation HQ!!!

 

They obviously didnt think it would upset Wolf Pack fans, or they didnt think there was enough to upset?

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Did the Rangers/MSG really beg Baldwin to come in and fix things?

 

Or did Baldwin ask to come in, and the Rangers said "sure, why not, give it your best shot"

 

Has any of that ever really been do*****ented how Baldwin took over the marketing, or are we all just guessing how it happened? I don't remember reading the specifics. I mean, there's still people who think that Baldwin actually owns the team now, so the story is a little hazy I guess.

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Well Brushback, that is a good question, but whether Howard asked/begged to come in, or he was invited in, the bottom line is he isn't here without the approval from MSG.

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Okay, I google'd some Courant articles. It says that Baldwin begged his way in, making repeated calls to Glen Sather long before the final months-long negotiations happened.

 

My guess is that Baldwin pursued this on his own, partly as a way to return to the scene of former glory, as it were-- and also as another business opportunity and a source of income, since he is an entrepreneur after all. I'm only guessing that Baldwin privately projected a revenue stream that was overly positive, and based on that he negotiated some kind of deal where he'd split some of the expenses in order to keep some of the profits. Then, when the attendance, season ticket, and advertising revenue that he'd counted on came up way short, he was left holding the bag on a bad business deal.

 

I haven't found anything yet about 'the team was definitely leaving in 2010', or anything like that. I'm presuming what happens now is that Baldwin licks his wounds and heads off into the sunset within a year, and the Rangers continue to operate their farm team out of Hartford with someone other than Baldwin heading up the marketing. That's just my guess, though.

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Ahmen Evo,

 

hindsight is 20/20 on both things. They are alike and people felt disrespected on both ends of it. But must only drive on one way streets cause he can't see that.

 

I don't really understand the whole MSG expected up to praise the Rangers though. I was a very dedicated WolfPack fan and until the CBA put in the salary cap I hated the Rangers. Once they had to utilize our players because of the cap is when I started liking the Rangers. Now that one of our players is their captain and identity I love the Rangers.

 

"More WolfPack fans = no Baldwin + no rebrand."

 

This is a true statement. But Mark always puts it out there in a way to be offensive. You can not blame the fans that were there for the ones that were not. Evo, I know you are an exception to this, but for the most part people were not avoiding games at the xl center just because of a name or colors. That may have been the excuse at the time, but now they are making new ones.

 

"but God in this market who the **** can succeed???? Answer that one!"

 

I think Baldwin could have if he didn't take sides. He should have split everything down the middle and said I have tried to make both sides happy and for hockey to work here we all have to work together and be one. Trying to end the battle would have been the most important thing to do. Look at this board, WE ARE NOT CLOSE!

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