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Whalevolution

'GET MOTIVATED' Hartford Hockey Moment

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W2W I'm sorry but there is no way someone can say they are a Hartford hockey fan and celebrate the elimination of 12 former Hartford hockey players from the Stanley Cup Playoffs. Even if your not a NYR fan.

 

Ofcourse they can like it or not but to Hartfordite Hockey Fans those 12 players dont play for HArtford they play for NY. I loved alot of those players, Mitc****, Bickel, Hagelin. I wanted the Rangers to win the whole thing so we could have one damn good Sat nite crowd but when they lost I didnt celebrate but I also didnt shed a tear for any of those players because they dont play for a team that I love.

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W2W Mark says it best. Let's get a new affiliation in here ever couple years and never make the playoffs. Having the confidence in the NYR putting a winning team on the ice every year is a good reason to be a fan.

 

I am curious to see what would happen with a different affiliate but I dont think there is much chance it would be better and here is why.

 

This year we saw Wolski, and Christiansen two guys that were entirely expendable on the Rangers. They were brought down here to play for the Whale to be scouted, conditioned and then traded. It happened and both those guys went on to start on other teams. Wolski played for the Panthers against the Devils in the playoffs. If we had Nashville or Islanders, or Dallas's AHL affiliate you would not see that type of talent on the team. Other teams dont have NHL ready players waiting in the wings.

 

With the Rangers I bet you we get a look at better players, granted its short but we saw these guys and they totally picked up the team during and after that January from ****. That wouldnt have happened with any other affiliate say except for an original six team.

 

Providence

Chicago

Grand Rapids

Toronto

Hamilton

 

Have the other 5 NHL original six affiliates, that puts us with them in an elite group in the AHL. Why slip to a lesser ahl franchise. Attendance most likely would continue to drop.

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"I am not saying things are that bad but they are not good, lets hope Baldwin is getting the ship righted and lets hope its not to late."

 

I definitely think it's not too late. There certainly appears to be some fence-mending between WSE and AEG, starting with AEG paying a chunk of the money owed Harbor Yard Sports for use of the arena in Bridgeport for the Whale playoff game there. Would they have paid even one thin dime of that money if they were still at odds with WSE?

 

"If the trouble is all about what league is here then why hasn't Baldwin gotten an NHL exhibition game here? Wouldn't that make a statement? or would it????"

 

Maybe Baldwin tried to get one, but it was too late? With MSG going through phase 2 of their renovations this summer, the building is now closed again until the fall. Maybe it will happen this year? I don't know. Now...in your eyes, what would "make a statement" to you? Fill the building? 10,000? 12,000?

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I got to say the idea of an NHL exhibition is about as exciting as going to a flower show at the Expo.

 

I would rather watch an AHL regular season game between Providence and Albany to be honest.

 

I used to watch alot of Whaler exhibition games and they were anything but interesting and at the additional expense I dont think it would sell well.

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Biggie1083 wrote :

 

> But, we didn't try to use our team to get the NHL. Everyone say

> "Hartford" Hockey, but most don't care about Hartford. They only

> care about the Whalers, Wolf Pack, or Rangers. If people really cared about

> "Hartford" Hockey, then they would be going to games no matter

> who the team affiliated. Also, if Howard Baldwin wasn't involved with the

> Whale then most Whalers fans would have nothing to do with the team. Even

> though, right now, all they talk about is how we all should support

> "Hartford" Hockey.

 

I'm not sure what this means relative to the question, but to be fair as I was about to write my response I saw that Mark said almost exactly what I would have written when he posted: "having the NHL over the AHL would be better for Hartford. Therefore, to care about the Whalers, is caring about Hartford."

 

When you wrote "But, we didn't try to use our team to get the NHL," that's true. Because you'd rather have the AHL affiliate of your favorite NHL team, the NY Rangers. While that's certainly your right, there's no question that that is not in the best interests of Hartford. Which leads right back to the point above.

 

Anyone can have any opinion he/she wants, but there's no question that the people who want to see Hartford become more success**l & better itself are the ones who care about it more. If you re-read some of the other points in the previous post you'll see valid reasons for why attendance is low for this team.

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I think thats true HYMH but lets see if you will pony up and wear this hat.

 

The NHL is not here obviously so until it returns Hartford is better off with the Rangers than no Minor/Pro hockey at all. So to care about the Rangers staying is the best we can do for Hartford right now as we work towards the NHL if possible, If not possible it makes sense for HARTFORD to have a strong AHL fan base. As strong as possible.

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I'm absolutely down the middle on the idea of a NHL preseason game here. While I'm curious to see what it would draw, I'm convinced it wouldn't draw more than say...7500.

 

I'd like to see the AHL succeed here, especially if it means that makes us look good or better in the eyes of the NHL. But the bottom line is that if Hartford has what Winnipeg has...a new arena, and a billionaire wanting to buy a team and move it here, the NHL would be back here in a second. That said, if the NHL were to ever go to Howard...or Stuttering Dan, or whomever, and say the door is closed forever, then yes, let's make the AHL team the best it could possibly be both on and off the ice.

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At this point, I don't think the NHL would be good for Hartford, because we would have to pay for everything. Until we get everything lined up, like Winnipeg, fighting for a NHL just doesn't seem practical at this point. The Whale was supposed to be a bridge to the NHL, but they went from average attendance of 5,695 to 4,573, a 19.7% decrease. That's 8.7 percent more than second worst Oklahoma City Barons with -11.3. The other thing that I thought was interesting is that Bridgeport had a 17.7% increase in their attendance to put them in third place, second was Lake Erie at 19.4%, and first was the Amerks with 44.5%.

 

http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2012/05/01/Research-and-Ratings/AHL-gate.aspx

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Biggie1083 wrote :

> At this point, I don't think the NHL would be good for Hartford,"

 

Was there a post-Wolf * Pack time where you thought the NHL would be good for Hartford? Presumably you think the AHL is good for Hartford. If that's so, would you be supportive of the next affiliation in here by attending games & buying, say, Hartford Blue Jackets jerseys?

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"The Whale was supposed to be a bridge to the NHL, but they went from average attendance of 5,695 to 4,573, a 19.7% decrease"

 

And again I ask the question...had the finances of WSE been in better shape, would we have seen such a big decrease? Would we have seen any decrease at all?

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Q: Was there a post-Wolf * Pack time where you thought the NHL would be good for Hartford?

 

A: Yes, but it started looking like a bad idea after the NHL lockout in 04-05, and a lot of teams and cities started stuggling with everthing from attendance, contracts, and money. This state doesn't have a lot of extra money. If a NHL team does come here and started losing money, we would all be screwed. It's like Mark said, " But the bottom line is that if Hartford has what Winnipeg has...a new arena, and a billionaire wanting to buy a team and move it here, the NHL would be back here in a second." But we are no where close to that, and until then, I won't think a NHL team is a good idea.

 

Q: If that's so, would you be supportive of the next affiliation in here by attending games & buying, say, Hartford Blue Jackets jerseys?

 

A: I would still go to games, but not as many as I go to now. Like I have said before, it would be no different than what happened when the Red Sox left New Britain, and the Rock Cats moved in. I use to go to a ton of NB Sox games, now I only go to a hand**l of Rock Cats games. I even own some Rock Cats stuff. I even support other AHL teams by buying thing from their stores. I try to get one jersey from every AHL team that I have seen at there home arenas - Springfield, Manchester, Portland, Albany, Hershey, and Norfolk.

 

Mark - I don't think we would have, but this team was supposed to help be run like the "31st NHL franchise. I doesn't even look like this team was run like a ECHL franchise.

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Case in point I am on twitter following some leads and the Falcons tweet a four ticket package with coozies for Dad for Fathers Day. Where is WSE with these simple yet effective ideas?

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Whalevolution wrote:

> I think thats true HYMH but lets see if you will pony up and wear this hat.

 

All right, Whalevolution. Hope**lly you'll read this objectively.

 

To be honest with you I've always truly believed that Hartford-without question-would not be without an AHL team for long. It's almost incomprehensible that we wouldn't. So as someone who has not liked the NY Rangers since I started watching hockey, I'd be very happy to see them finally leave & then support whoever replaces them.

 

Since the re-brand, I've gone to many games to support the W S & E effort. The jerseys & Br***** Bonanza are cool, but I simply can't bring myself to care at all when they win. It's ridiculous to have to go to games to support a home team you'd rather root against.

 

Now on the other hand, let's say W S & E leaves & the Rangers sign another long term contract here. Then, the odds on the NHL returning go down even lower than they are now so, in that instance, I wouldn't support them either because the best we could ever hope for is a different AHL affiliation. Which we would almost certainly get.

 

So, if I started going back to Springfield or Bridgeport to watch AHL games like I did when the Wolf * Pack were here, it really wouldn't matter. Because we'd either be stuck with the Rangers playing in front of nobody, or a different AHL team, playing in front a few more.

 

Either way, as a consumer you generally affect change with your wallet. I & others didn't support the Wolf * Pack, & eventually some change came. (W S & E & the rebrand) Only in this ridiculous situation are consumers asked to support something we simply don't want. What other business is run that way?

 

If W S & E leave & the Rangers stay, supporting the Wolf Pack would be dumb.Because either way we'll have the AHL here & I'd rather wait to support something I'd actually want to see.I also believe a new team would be better for attendance.Not much maybe,but better.

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Whalevolution wrote :

> Case in point I am on twitter following some leads and the Falcons tweet a

> four ticket package with coozies for Dad for Fathers Day. Where is WSE

> with these simple yet effective ideas?

 

Exactly, you don't have to have expensive giveaways, or expensive events to get people in the building. WSE always seemed to have huge and expensive events and giveaways. For the Wolf Pack's 10th Anniversary they had 10 anniversary giveaways and they were small. The smallest one was the 10th Anniversary logo on a Christmas tree ornament. They also had posters and matchbox cars. Bigger isn't always better.

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"Now on the other hand, let's say W S & E leaves & the Rangers sign another long term contract here. Then, the odds on the NHL returning go down even lower than they are now so, in that instance, I wouldn't support them either because the best we could ever hope for is a different AHL affiliation. Which we would almost certainly get."

 

If the Rangers sign another long term contract here, how would we end up with a different AHL affiliation?

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MarkH2919 wrote :

> "Now on the other hand, let's say W S & E leaves & the Rangers

> sign another long term contract here. Then, the odds on the NHL returning

> go down even lower than they are now so, in that instance, I wouldn't

> support them either because the best we could ever hope for is a different

> AHL affiliation. Which we would almost certainly get."

>

> If the Rangers sign another long term contract here, how would we end up

> with a different AHL affiliation?

 

I'll clarify. There is an *****umption that a long-term contract would come with an out-clause for both sides after a few seasons. If that's the case, low attendance might cause the Rangers to leave Hartford & be replaced by another NHL team.

 

If there is no out-clause then the Rangers would simply stay whether I went to games or not. In that instance, I'd only go to Hartford mostly for the games they'd play versus the affiliate of the NHL team I root for now.

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I understand I think HYMH

 

You just cant will yourself to go numb and root for the current team here and also hope it leads to the unlikely scenario of the NHL returning.

I am not being sarcastic some people just cant do it. Its not easy believe me, I can barely do it myself, but I will tell you this; I am having a blast doing it.

 

I actually enjoy a little bit of the freedom that comes with it, I wanted the Whale to go to the Calder Cup because its good for Hartford but when they lost to Norfolk it didnt ruin my season. I had alot of **n this year and I got to meet a ton of people at WSE. Including spending a few hours with Howard Baldwin Sr. which was made me like a kid on Xmas.

 

I had **n hope they do better next year and thats that. I wont be getting ulcers and pulling my hair out like I was when the Whalers were here but I also will be able to move on the the next thing pretty easily if the Rangers leave.

 

But I have to tell you this HYMH from what I am hearing there is a better sshot of the NHL returning than the Rangers moving their AHL affiliate. You might be hating the Rangers for a long time to come.

 

When I realized that I decided it was time to make lemonade. Let me know if you decide to too. We could always use a few good Whaler fans.

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OK, so you're *****uming that there is an out clause, and you're *****uming that the Rangers would grow so disenchanted with the attendance that they would use the out clause to go somewhere else.

 

That looks like you're *****uming a lot. Not saying that couldn't happen...but if the Rangers were really that disenchanted with Hartford, I think they would have been out of here 5 years ago when the CDA awarded the running of the building to AEG. I really think they like the fact their players are nice and close, and that they can make a 2 hour car ride up here to see them whenever the mood strikes. Something tells me that trumps attendance or any of the other issues Hartford has right now.

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Yes Mark is right

 

Dont think fo a minute that the Rangers will leave because only 1500 people show up. They like the location they could care less about us as fans. Why stick around if your in the bottom half every year unless you dont care about attendance,

 

In fact I would say the only way the Rangers leave is if Hartford gets a billionaire and a new arena QUICK!

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Whalevolution wrote :

> I understand I think HYMH"

 

That's true. I go, & sometimes I've gone with people who are new to hockey. If they ask, I'll use the game to explain the rules of hockey to them. I'll sit there & watch the game, & when they score it's like, OK, they scored. & I don't care at all, really. Remember being at a Whalers game & when they scored you'd jump straight up & cheer with the rest of the Civic Center? It's nothing like that.

 

They're wearing green, they're playing Br***** Bonanza, & when they score, there's nothing. They're still the Rangers. To continue to support that would be like continuing to buy movie tickets, getting great, comfortable seats in the I-Max 3D theater,& then watching a two-hour commercial for the concession stand.

 

Most games in Hartford now have all the excitement of a trip to Starbucks.

 

You sit in a nearly-empty arena with half the fans not caring about the home team; there only to support an effort that will almost certainly not come to p*****. Next to you are the other half, a group of fans who don't care about Hartford at all, p*****ionately rooting for the home team simply because they're a part of an NHL team you can't stand.

 

At that point you start rooting for whoever is the away team just so you don't have to hear them. You've got Ranger fans who don't care that this is Hartford, not MSG,& want everything their way.Want just one example? After years of having the Rangers thrown at us every which way, we were finally tossed the crumbs of a better name & our old uniforms. Right away these clowns are loudly complaining how they lost "their team,"-which of course is still affiliated with the Rangers.

 

Unless you're away somewhere & just happen to go to a game that's playing where you are, you go to sporting events for the great **n of rooting for your team. Along with other fans who are cheering just as hard for the same team. It's just not **n to go.

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"Remember being at a Whalers game & when they scored you'd jump straight up & cheer with the rest of the Civic Center? It's nothing like that. "

 

I don't know...the playoff game against BPT that went to OT, when they scored in OT to win the game and sweep the series, I know the 3900 or so that were there jumped out of their seats. I know when they beat Norfolk in game 4 to tie that series, they were sent off by the small crowd with a deserved standing ovation. Maybe it's not like it was because the crowd is 1/4 of what it used to be, and that is certainly fair...but there are people that do care about the existing team, AND care about Hartford.

 

"You sit in a nearly-empty arena with half the fans not caring about the home team; there only to support an effort that will almost certainly not come to p*****. Next to you are the other half, a group of fans who don't care about Hartford at all, p*****ionately rooting for the home team simply because they're a part of an NHL team you can't stand."

 

See, this is where I strongly disagree with you. Yeah, there might be people like yourself that "doesn't care about the home team", but I highly doubt that number is as high as you say, in fact I'd be surprised if that number was more than say...100 a night. There are also a lot of fans at the games that DO care about Hartford, and can root for the home team, because most of the Hartford hockey fans do not share the same dislike for the Rangers as you do. Myself, Whaleguy, Evo, and a bunch of others fall into this group.

 

So no, it's not the same as it was when the NHL was here....and until it returns, it will never be the same. There will be moments, as there were during the Calder Cup run in 2000, that did come close, very, very close. And those moments, to the ones that were there, are still quite special.

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HYMH I get it but your not living out a sentence, your just making a choice. Why do you have to go pooping on the AHL all the time, yea its AHL if you tell me you are going to root like crazy for the Hartford Senators your really whacked. We get it dude AHL/Ranger hockey is not your thing. Listen, I hate MMA and those wrestling matches where the goal seems to be how far can you get your opponent up in your junk, I much more prefer boxing for a combative sport. But I dont need to bring everyone else down that may enjoy the MMA. If they do good for them.

 

You see Howard is here with one goal in mind. Its rebuild the market, we cant even think about the NHL without a market and we cant rebuild the market without a Howard type at the helm. Everyone, I mean everyone needs to help rebuilding the market it keeps the Rangers here, for those who care, it keeps the pro hockey here for those that care and it keeps Howard in business for those that care. Rebuilding the market is good for everyone, even you BOBCATS out there! When you dont get on board with rebuilding the market your counterproductive to the movement. You dont have to love the movement but if you want to rebuild the market to move onto the next step you need to be on board.

 

I disagree with one thing that O'Reilly probably never said its not the home of the WHALERS, it was the home of the WHALERS, it was the home of the WOLF PACK and now its the home of the Whale, our team. LEMONADE anybody? And dont tell me if we had this or that, This is it if you remember the movie 'Crimson Tide" Denzel Washington the XO says to a Radio Operator that he needs to rebuild the radio from scratch he says its a crappy deal and its all on you can you handle it? That question is being posed to us now in regards to our hockey market. Who is going to say NO?

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MarkH2919 wrote :

> So no, it's not the same as it was when the NHL was here....and until it

> returns, it will never be the same. There will be moments, as there were

> during the Calder Cup run in 2000, that did come close, very, very close.

> And those moments, to the ones that were there, are still quite special.

 

I get that, but for me I just can't root for them. I was at one of the 2000 Calder Cup games too, rooting for Rochester. I'm not trying to take this thread elsewhere to a different discussion, but to me having the Rangers here is one step below having the Bruins here. Now, let's agree that we'll disagree on that. The fact is though that the Rangers are going to be here or leave regardless of what I'd rather see. Therefore it's my choice to support other nearby teams or the opposing team.

 

& no Calder Cup won on a goal by Terry Virtue, John McRangers or whoever scored it would ever come close to either of Dineen's Game 6 winners or, for that matter, several of their regular season wins. IMHO.

 

Evo-

 

Actually, I've said several times I don't mind having the AHL here. & would support if it were a non-Rangers/Bruins/Hurricanes affiliate. In fact I was there when the Whalers' Springfield Indians team won the Calder Cup. That was a great series for Whalers fans, & Springfield fans got to see the team win whose parent club brought the NHL to their city for a s h o r t time. The AHL is good hockey.

 

Though you're right; of course I wouldn't be rooting as hard if we were the Hartford Canucks or Sharks as I would root for the NHL Whalers. But I would certainly enjoy the game a lot more if I could root for the home team- & that makes a lot of difference.

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You can root for the home team, but you choose not to because of your hatred for the Rangers. The thing is that there are Whale Fans that are also fans of the Rangers, Devils, Bruins, and other teams, but for some reason you can't do it. All I have to say is, "You're missing out."

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