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WolfpackFan1998

MIDDLETOWN PRESS: Islanders to Hartford a pipedream

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In all fairness whalepack, and you may very well be right you are overlooking 2 points. 1st that arena that we would have built and would have 10 years to go on paying for Raleigh did, and they are close to being left without a hockey tenant. IMO any bond for an arena project should be 18-20 years, the current life of these buildings. Secondly I would love a new XL but I feel it could be a backbreaker if one is built and we are left with 30 uconn events a year and some concerts. Many on this board claim the wolf pack will be gone either way and I feel to expect a major uptick in concerts is not reasonable. Meadows will still own the summer concert season and the casinos have their own way of attracting artists. So yes, give me an NHL team and I am all on board but to make a long shot bet with 250 million is foolish. All that being said I think this will get done one way or another and for all of our sake I hope it brings us an NHL team.

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Shockingly, TopCat and Will re**se to answer my question.

 

But, I will answer TopCat's.

 

His question is "How is this renovation going to perk up Hartford's night life?"

 

Well, let's see. A renovated building has the potential to produce more concerts, concerts that currently p***** on going to the XL Center for more modern facilities, such as Mohegan Sun. More concerts = more people = more nightlife.

 

As for the sports end of it, there would be 25-30 UConn games (between basketball and hockey) per the agreement UConn signed with the CRDA. While it's quite possible the WolfPack will be gone after next year (dear God, let's hope so), there's nothing to say that another AHL team would not come in...in a renovated building, without having to constantly s**** out money for repairs to 40 year old equipment that is consistently breaking down, maybe the building even with just the AHL and UConn could break even instead of losing roughly $3M/year. People have been saying for years that they would like to see a new AHL team in here...maybe we get that chance. And, of course, a renovated building means we could be in play for the NHL returning, and while that's still considered by many to be a long $h0t....I'll take a long $h0t over no $h0t. By not renovating, the NHL goes away...forever.

 

Now...let's look at what happens if there is no XL Center, a distinct possibility, if not likelihood, if the renovations are not approved. What do you think Hartford's nightlife would be, TC? I'll tell you....it would be a great big fat zilch.

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In a previous thread/comment on this board a reporters comment was brought up and I would tend to agree with it in that New Haven has a pretty good night life scene going on and they have no arena. It's because they have like 4 or 5 colleges and an area with bars/night clubs. In the bad-ol'-days I hung out in New Haven every weekend. The notion that an arena is the only, or even best way to boost night life is wrong. I go to games all the time. At best I grab a couple beers from a local bar but honestly most of the time I do everything I'm going to do inside the arena. It's not a hard concept Mark, I'd love a new arena and if there is an NHL team coming here I hope they build one.

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Will and I have a long standing hatred for each other, but I agree with him 100% on this XL issue. I did answer your ? markie, read my posts again only more slowly. Increase the seating by over 1700 is for who? ahl nooo, uconn mens hockey noo, uconn mens basketball noo, concerts noo for 4 or 5 months there is the Infinity meadows which holds 20,000 to 30,000. And Will is right on with the New Haven vs Hartford as to who has the better night life. As a rule college towns rock with a wide variety of things to see and hear whether it's New Haven Ct, Boston, Austin TX, Norman OK, Nashville TN even Providence RI has a much better record for city life. And my favorite Burlington VT, yup this cow state has more cultural stuff per capita then any other city in the US. Eat your F&$&ing heart out markie boy. Here's the BIG screw up in CT the location of the main uconn campus And you call Burlington a hick town ??? Storrs is a rock throw away from that wonder**l CT city called Willimantic, Heroin capital of New England with a very active Hispanic gang problem. My suggestion is for you and your nutty followers go lick some trees in Storrs Ct and before you drive back to Greater Hartford pick up a bad or 2 of scag.

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Leave it alone & spend $ on schools and cleaning up the crime that's rampant for starters. Another 1700 seats? for what that's my ? and Will's as well.

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OK, so your "plan" is to do what we've been doing for 20 years...next to nothing. OK. So, now it's time to come across with some figures.

 

In 1997, the state was ready to build the Whalers a new arena. Not a renovated one...a brand new one. The estimated cost in 1997? $147.5M (source: Wikipedia). The estimated cost for the renovation of the existing XL Center, spread out over a 3-4 year period, is $250M. So by the state of Connecticut putting off working on the facility for 20 years, it's going to cost them $100M+ more than it would have to build new in 1997-1998. It's a certainty that the costs will only continue to rise, so by the time you're ready to renovate...whenever that's going to be...the cost could be well over $300M...and again, that's to renovate, not build new. Of course, that is in addition to the costs to constantly fix parts that per Chris Lawrence, the XL General Manager, continue to break down...like the heating/air conditioning, like the elevators, like the escalators, like the overhead doors, and so forth. And of course, should the main ice plant go down, you know, the one that's going on 40 years old (*****uming it was replaced when the building was rebuilt in the late 1970s), then what?

 

Why on earth would the state continue to do that? If they're going to keep the building open and try to Band-Aid the myriad of issues the building has...that's the definition of pouring in good money after bad. It's like keeping an old car for the sentimental value, only to have to bring it to the mechanic every 4-6 weeks to fix one thing or another. After a while, it's just not worth the money to keep doing that. This is the same thing....if the state legislature decides against the renovations that is.

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Bridgeport has an arena. New Haven doesn't. Which city would you rather go out for a night on the town in? I go to Sound Tigers games all the time and I can't say I've spent a dollar outside of the arena and parking lot. This XL renovation doesn't even come with an AHL lease. So we're talking 30 UCONN events, some concerts and Disney on ice. I still don't see how anyone can justify that expense. I don't know what I'd do with the XL. It doesn't really matter because like I said earlier I think this reno will happen.

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The cost of an arena in 1997 has nothing to do with this. Had we built that arena they'd already be squawking for a new one or at least a major renovation.

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"The cost of an arena in 1997 has nothing to do with this. Had we built that arena they'd already be squawking for a new one or at least a major renovation."

 

You have no way of knowing if that's true or not.

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MarkH2919 wrote:

> What would your plan be for the XL Center, *****uming there is no NHL team?

 

Without an NHL team, there is no justification for the XL Center renovation, at least not at the level being proposed. There are other venues in the state that can accommodate just about any event other than hosting an NHL team. I would scale back the renovations to keep the building **nctional as it is now. They recently spent $35 million, but apparently felt that a club section in the arena was more important than replacing the refrigeration system and the wiring. Priorities seem to be more than a bit out of whack. Without a team, there is no need for the new upper concourse and additional seating. That is a major expense that could and should be eliminated without an NHL team. IMO, a more modest renovation, like what was done at N*****au, is the only realistic way to save the XL Center without an NHL team coming here, which seems increasingly unlikely.

 

In an ideal world, we'd be able to replace the XL Center with a brand new state-of-the-art arena, and have the NHL begging us to put a team there. But we don't live in an ideal world. Hockey fans live in a larger world **ll of people with no interest in hockey who also pay taxes and have their priorities that we may not care much about. Their opinions count just as much as ours.

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"I still don't see how anyone can justify that expense."

 

When the alternative is the likely closing of the building, then it's pretty easy to justify, IMO. Especially with WhalePack's numbers regarding the low interest rates and so forth.

 

Without the XL, there's no pro hockey in Hartford (regardless of league). There's no more UConn basketball or hockey in Hartford. There's no more concerts in downtown Hartford...there's no more Disney on Ice, or WWE, or Globetrotters, or Monster Trucks, or whatever else. People talk about Malloy letting GE leave the state, and the jobs that cost Connecticut, this is similar. Not only would you be talking about the WolfPack personnel being out of work...you're talking about ushers, concession people, and so on. And, you're also going to see restaurants around the XL Center, places that budget the 100-125 events (or whatever) into their ledgers go under because of the business they're losing...which will cost more jobs. You get the idea, I'm sure.

 

"I don't know what I'd do with the XL. It doesn't really matter because like I said earlier I think this reno will happen."

 

I think the renovation happens also, mostly out of necessity. The powers that be have put it off as long as they can...as nedman said before...the time has come to pay the piper.

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"Without an NHL team, there is no justification for the XL Center renovation, at least not at the level being proposed. There are other venues in the state that can accommodate just about any event other than hosting an NHL team. I would scale back the renovations to keep the building **nctional as it is now. They recently spent $35 million, but apparently felt that a club section in the arena was more important than replacing the refrigeration system and the wiring. Priorities seem to be more than a bit out of whack. Without a team, there is no need for the new upper concourse and additional seating. That is a major expense that could and should be eliminated without an NHL team. IMO, a more modest renovation, like what was done at N*****au, is the only realistic way to save the XL Center without an NHL team coming here, which seems increasingly unlikely."

 

So you're saying to just forget the NHL, that it will never, ever, ever happen, and that you would spend say...$100-$125M to renovate the building to have it be something similar to N*****au...and be content with minor league hockey, and UConn basketball and hockey?

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MarkH2919 wrote:

>

> So you're saying to just forget the NHL, that it will never, ever, ever

> happen, and that you would spend say...$100-$125M to renovate the building

> to have it be something similar to N*****au...and be content with minor

> league hockey, and UConn basketball and hockey?

 

It was YOUR premise was to *****ume there was no NHL team coming. That was how I based my response. Now you want to criticize me for saying we should renovate the building on a smaller scale? A smaller renovation might be doable, a **ll-scale NHL rebuild, without an NHL team, is beyond crazy in the current environment.

 

Am I content with minor league hockey and UConn? No, not at all. That's why I haven't been in that building since 1997. And there are a lot of people throughout the state who don't use the XL. But you, and others, think that all of us should spend a quarter of billion dollars so that you can have a state-of-the-art arena that seats 17,000 for 6,000 people at UConn hockey games.

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Wow. We're super-sensitive today.

 

I'm not criticizing you, I'm asking you a question. And it was based on the premise of no NHL, so that should not have been part of it, that's my fault, I'm sorry.

 

So you'd do a $100-$125M smaller renovation.

 

Will doesn't know what he'd do, but he seems pretty sure the renovations will happen for $250M

 

TC says to leave the building alone.

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Now then...the list of people on here that are for the **ll $250M renovation

 

Myself

Evo

WhaleGuy

Mr. BB

WhalePack

Whalerdude

Wolfie

Nedman

Jersey

 

If there are others, let's hear from you. And...if you're against the **ll $250M in renovations, I pose the same question to you that I posed to TC and Will. What would be your plan for the XL Center, on the premise the NHL will NOT return?

Edited by Guest

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Wow markie the list leaves out your hand puppet aka jersey. As for the list ,at least 2 are diehard wolf pack fans !7,000 for ahl you & your list are crack pots, period the end.

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If p4277's smaller scale renovation that addressed the needs for the events that currently happen at the XL was on the table I'd go for that. A 17000 seat arena with 2 concourses for a building that has its upper bowl covered wire a black curtain most nights is silly. If we're possible to leave the building with the option for expansion in the event of an NHL arrival that would be even better.

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"Wow markie the list leaves out your hand puppet aka jersey. As for the list ,at least 2 are diehard wolf pack fans !7,000 for ahl you & your list are crack pots, period the end."

 

The list was for people that are for renovation. Who they root for or not root for makes no difference.

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"If p4277's smaller scale renovation that addressed the needs for the events that currently happen at the XL was on the table I'd go for that. A 17000 seat arena with 2 concourses for a building that has its upper bowl covered wire a black curtain most nights is silly. If we're possible to leave the building with the option for expansion in the event of an NHL arrival that would be even better."

 

Fair enough.

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So Will and P4277 would go for a smaller renovation, similar to N*****au Coliseum's renovation.

 

TC would go for no renovation at all, to "kick the can down the road".

 

9 people here would support the **ll renovation.

 

Now, I will grant you this is a very, very small percentage of the population...and as Will pointed out, there seem to be more people against this than for it, at least at the present moment. All of that said, it does make me openly wonder that IF IF IF IF IF Malloy was telling the truth the other day, and there was a group interested in buying a NHL team and moving it here...how quickly would the rampant negativity around the state would turn around.

 

Before TC gets his Ken Dryden underoos in a bunch again, this is speculation. No more, no less, hence the IF IF IF IF IF before my statement about Malloy.

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If Malloy had an NHL team signed and sealed, contingent on a renovation, there would be a large group of people won over, myself included. There would then also be the "let the billionaires pay for their own building" still left, but you were never going to win them over.

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"If Malloy had an NHL team signed and sealed, contingent on a renovation, there would be a large group of people won over, myself included. There would then also be the "let the billionaires pay for their own building" still left, but you were never going to win them over."

 

No question about that.

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That's a lot of "IF" s for a lot of the tax payers $. Not a citizen of the nut meg state but if I was I'd be raising H E L L . The member who posted that these $ people should pay half is more than fair. Now if the IFs are true half and half might fly with the CT populous. All that being said Malloy has to tell the population who these people are and get a contract and a sizeable amount of nonre**ndable $ for these renovations. Then and only then can you and your nutty supporters jump up and down. I won't hold my breath.

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