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WolfpackFan1998

MIDDLETOWN PRESS: Islanders to Hartford a pipedream

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"All that being said Malloy has to tell the population who these people are and get a contract and a sizeable amount of nonre**ndable $ for these renovations. Then and only then can you and your nutty supporters jump up and down. I won't hold my breath."

 

They'd also have to buy a team.

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No, because it's not completely out of the realm of possibility that the existing owners of a team could decide to move a team here if they got the right deal.

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Mark what would you think if this same deal was offered to another CT city? What if Malloy was proposing to preemptively build an NHL arena in Stamford or expand the 17 year old, city owned Webster Bank Arena in Bridgeport in hopes of luring the Islanders? Serious question. No sarcasm.

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"Mark what would you think if this same deal was offered to another CT city? What if Malloy was proposing to preemptively build an NHL arena in Stamford or expand the 17 year old, city owned Webster Bank Arena in Bridgeport in hopes of luring the Islanders? Serious question. No sarcasm."

 

If he wanted to expand WBA in Bridgeport to make it NHL ready with the hope of bringing the Islanders, yes, I would support that. I do not think I'd be able to support something in Stamford.

 

A new arena (and Stamford doesn't have one) would cost...at least...double to triple what is being proposed for the XL Renovations. How much would it be to say...add a 2nd deck all the way around in Bridgeport and put in a 2nd concourse? I have no clue, but I'd say it will be less than the money to build new from scratch.

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Will, you got me thinking...

 

I did a little research, and looked up the last 10 major league sports arenas opened in the US, with their maximum capacity, year opened, and cost (all numbers per Wikipedia)

 

Detroit, MI --- Little Caesars Arena (2017) --- $732.6M --- Max Cap = 22,000

Las Vegas, NV --- T-Mobile Arena (2016) --- $375.0M --- Max Cap = 20,000

Sacramento, CA --- Golden 1 Center (2016) --- $558.2M --- Max Cap = 18,000

Brooklyn, NY --- Barclays Center (2012) --- $511.0M --- Max Cap = 19,000

Orlando, FL --- Amway Center (2010) --- $480.0M --- Max Cap = 20,000

Pittsburgh, PA --- PPG Paints Arena (2010) --- $321.0M --- Max Cap = 19,578

Newark, NJ --- Prudential Center (2007) --- $375.0M --- Max Cap = 19,500

Charlotte, NC --- Spectrum Center (2005) --- $260.0M --- Max Cap = 20,200

Memphis, TN --- FedEx Forum (2004) --- $250.0M --- Max Cap = 19,500

Glendale, AZ --- Gila River Arena (2003) --- $220.0M --- Max Cap = 19,000

 

Now, I know the prices in 2003 compared to today is like comparing apples and oranges...but the average cost for these 10 brand new facilities is just over $400M. The first 6 in this list, all built in this decade, average out to be $496M.

 

The point is...if Malloy decided to build a brand new arena anywhere in Connecticut...you're looking at...bare minimum...roughly $500M. Which, quite bluntly, is ridiculous when you can renovate a current arena in existence to make it similar to a brand new arena for half the price.

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When were doing this we should stick to buildings built after the financial crisis and also take into account that this project is going to cost more than 250 mil. You have to figure the cost to acquire the additional property and the fact that it will go over budget because everything goes over budget .

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Yes, I understand that. It doesn't change the point.

 

A new facility would cost, at least, $500M, probably more...especially considering acquiring land, etc. So...in reality, it could be $600M. The renovations of a building that's already mostly controlled by the state...would run, even going over-budget (because, as you said, every building goes over budget)...around $300M. And chances are that would include the money to get Gottesdiener and Northland out of the XL atrium.

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The point of my question was not the cost of renovating an existing building compared to building a new one from scratch it was that many in lower Fairfield County who are against this spending main concern is their money going towards something they'll never use and may never be **lly used anyway. (As in building an NHL arena with the likely possibility that an NHL team never moves in). I wonder how you and the other pro renovation at any cost crowd would feel if this was going towards a similarly risky venture on the opposite side of the state .

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Mark, Why are you bringing up what new arenas cost? The state can not afford to gamble in hope that a NHL team will come. How many times must this be repeated. A major renovation or a brand new arena should not be happening without a firm commitment that this group or individual has the $ and a team to be bought. In fact I and other members do not believe that there is such a group or individual. You and your band have been clutching at straws and believing some nobody's rumors and hear says for many years now. By the way a survey was ironically just released on NESSEN TV that had state capital cities ranked for desirable living and last place was Jackson Ms, No surprise there and second to last Hartford CT. So are you saying that a major overhaul of the XL will raise Hartford's status? and bring in some night life? Not to sound like da donald but "It ant happening"

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I gotta say, this is a great discussion/debate, very civil and lots of good points, just like the old days. I have a question and/or point to make. We're all trying to figure out how the State can afford the $250M "reno" and we all have opposite opinions which is all fine and good. The question I have is:

 

Why, oh why is UCONN treated as the center of the Universe in Connecticut from a budgeting standpoint? Why?

 

Did you know? The University of Connecticut pays UConn 2000 bonds from a debt service commitment appropriated from the

State General **nd originally established under Public Act 95-230 and extended in 2010 and 2013. Up to $4.3 billion

of Debt Service Commitment bonds will be issued under a 28-year $4.6 billion capital program to rebuild and

re**rbish the University of Connecticut.

 

The current "credit card tab" that's bonded as of today for UCONN is $1.303B. That's BILLION! The total spend can be Bonded upwards to $4.3B Why the F are we spending so much money on a University system that does not benefit everyone in the State? Same concept as the XL Center, eh? Not all taxpayers use XL as in not all taxpayers use UCONN facilities. So, why can't we drain a mere $250M (yes, only Million) from UCONN 2000 and **nd the XL renovation? What's the size of the UCONN Endowment **nd? Bueller, Bueller, anyone, anyone??? It's GOTTA be millions. It's time for UCONN to spent their own money and not to continue to act as an island ****king money from CT taxpayers.

 

Did you know? There's only 1 player on the UCONN men's hockey team from CT? Only 4 players on the Men's BB team from CT? Only 1 player on the Women's BB team from CT? Football... You get the Gist. Our athletes in CT aren't benefiting from UCONN 2000 Bonded projects, so why are we spending all these $$$'s for outsider athletes from Sweden, Canada, California, Finland, and even Moscow Russia? This $hit has to stop.

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I love the perspective you bring whalepack. Actual facts and numbers go a long way. That being said it's kind of ironic that your point is that we, as a state will bond money for UCONN without hesitation but are more critical for other ventures. You do realize that UCONN athletics stands to also get a free building out of this deal right? In the absence of the NHL this is basically a building for UCONN as this board seems to think the wolf pack will be gone in a year.

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With no guarantee that Nhl team is coming back to Hartford and no guarantee that if Nhl team did come back that the owners of the team would help out with cost of XL center renovation, I do not think state of Ct should be spending $250 million on a "maybe". Not with the budget troubles the state of Ct is dealing with. With no guarantee that Nhl is coming back to Hartford and no guarantee that rich owners of any hockey team (Nhl, Ahl, Echl, whatever) would help out with cost of Xl center up-grade, I think the most state should do is a renovation like at N*****au Coliseum. Put $125 to $130 million in building and make it the best combo Ahl and Hockey East and Aac basketball level and concert facility it can be. Even getting General *****embly support for the $125 to 130 million could be tough with the problems people are having with governor Malloy's budget plan, but I could support the state trying to get $125 million to $130 million for a smaller scale Xl center reno. If it is possible do the smaller scale reno in a way that could allow Xl center to be expanded if a really rich owner of Nhl team could be convinced to help pay for Xl center expansion and bring a team back to Hartford some day.

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"The point of my question was not the cost of renovating an existing building compared to building a new one from scratch it was that many in lower Fairfield County who are against this spending main concern is their money going towards something they'll never use and may never be **lly used anyway. (As in building an NHL arena with the likely possibility that an NHL team never moves in). I wonder how you and the other pro renovation at any cost crowd would feel if this was going towards a similarly risky venture on the opposite side of the state ."

 

Well Will, your original question was about supporting either a renovated Webster Bank Arena to NHL standards, or building a new arena in say...Stamford. So, I looked up the costs of the last 10 new major league arenas in this country...to make the point that a new arena ANYWHERE in the state, be it Putnam or Stonington, or Goshen or Stamford, is going to run...at the very, very least, double what the cost of renovating the XL would cost. So yes, it does matter in the conversation, because if most people are against a $250M renovation, they should certainly be against something that would cost double that amount, at least.

 

As I said yesterday, if the state decided to close the XL, but spend the money to make WBA in Bridgeport NHL caliber, I would support that. But I would not support a new arena in Stamford, for the simple reason that a perfectly good alternative to a new arena in Stamford can be done in Bridgeport...or in Hartford...for half the money.

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"Mark, Why are you bringing up what new arenas cost? The state can not afford to gamble in hope that a NHL team will come. How many times must this be repeated. A major renovation or a brand new arena should not be happening without a firm commitment that this group or individual has the $ and a team to be bought."

 

In order...

 

1) Will asked whether or not I would support a new building somewhere in Fairfield County, so I looked up the costs of new buildings.

 

2) If you don't renovate the building and continue to put band-aids on the myriad of problems the building currently has, you are facing the risk of something happening in the building that would force events to be cancelled or moved.

 

While I totally understand the state is in tight budget constraints, the state also can't continue to keep putting band-aids on the problems that are at the XL Center. I compared the XL to an old car that you keep for sentimental value, but every 4-6 weeks you're bringing it to your mechanic to fix one small thing or another. At some point...you have to realize you have to get a newer car, and that's exactly where we are with the XL Center.

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This was your precise question, Will.

 

""Mark what would you think if this same deal was offered to another CT city? What if Malloy was proposing to preemptively build an NHL arena in Stamford or expand the 17 year old, city owned Webster Bank Arena in Bridgeport in hopes of luring the Islanders? Serious question. No sarcasm.""

 

I have now answered this question twice. I will answer it again.

 

If Malloy wanted to expand WBA to be NHL ready in hopes of luring the Islanders, I would support it. I would not support anything in Stamford, because that would be a new arena with a price tag of at least $500M or more. There is no reason to spend $500M on a new arena when you can either expand Bridgeport or renovate Hartford for half the price.

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markie is still in la la land and will never change. Unless I lost my mind will and chad posts totally agree with mine. Your platform is "Build it and they will come" That is total fantasy. I think it's only you and meetoo who are on on that page. Your other fantasy is that your upscale building will revive Hartford's social climate. To use your leader's over used phrase: "It's not Happening" Out of all fifty capital city states Hartford ranked 49th for desirable cities to live in. No I don't know all the variables in the poll but that is a stark statement. Mark it's time to grow up. And please don't nit pick any one's posts and try real hard to understand the whole point with all it's supporting facts and reasonable thoughts.

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"markie is still in la la land and will never change"

 

Will asked me a question. I answered it. Not sure why that puts me in "la la land"

 

"Your platform is "Build it and they will come" That is total fantasy. I think it's only you and meetoo who are on on that page. Your other fantasy is that your upscale building will revive Hartford's social climate."

 

My platform is build it because the building is desperately behind the times, and is in dire need of major repairs. It has nothing to do with the NHL. It has everything to do with making sure UConn has a top notch facility to play in. It has everything to do with making sure the younger generations have a facility to see events like sports, concerts, and other family shows.

 

And while I have no idea if an upgraded XL will help the Hartford social climate (I'll go on a $h0rt limb and say it will), I know for a fact that closing and bulldozing the XL will be a crushing blow to what's left of Hartford's social climate.

 

You sit there and nitpick my posts, but then has a hissy fit when someone does it back to you. Then you tell me to grow up. Hilarious. Here's a thought, loser...practice what you preach.

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Your list of so called supporters on this reno issue are mostly clowns just like you. Wp Bb,to name2. Oh I believe p42 is also in agreement with me so not only are you in la la land you are extremely thin skinned and now you are a branded liar. Dude, you really need to get out more and ck out the real world around you. Side comment: the HABS organization grabbed another kid from CT. He'll probably never make it to the NHL but he is going to play for in the ahl for the Ice Caps. So don't respond with "Nobody cares about the HABS" It's about a sport called HOCKEY and your state called Connecticut. As for me being a loser I moved out of my parents house while I was a senior in college AND YOU ARE HOW OLD AGAIN???? And where is your little puppet is he stuck in a dough vat again? Have a nice day markie.

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So let's see if I have this right.

 

In TC's world, if you don't agree with EVERYTHING he says...you are either "extremely thin skinned" or "a branded liar" or some combination of the two.

 

Does that about cover it? Now...everybody for the renovations is "in la la land or are "mostly clowns" and everybody against, even though Will, Chad and P4277 have said they would approve a smaller renovation, similar to the one going on in Uniondale, "get it" so they move to the "cool table", at least until they disagree with you on something else. And at that point, your cute little name calling will start all over again.

 

Oh, and lastly, nobody in Connecticut gives a rat's backside about your choking, crappy Canadiens. It would be great to watch them piss away the division and a playoff spot. AGAIN.

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"I'm thinking the reason TC talks so much about them here is because he got banned from all Canadiens message boards. He has nowhere else to go. :lol:"

 

With such an effervescent, positive look on life? Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :lol:

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