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Whalevolution

As we've been saying there is an investment group

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Sure would be nice if state of Ct and city of Hartford could find Nhl investors like True North Sports & entertainment in Winnipeg. When MTS Centre got built from scratch in Winnipeg, True North investors paid $93 million of arena's $133.5 million price tag. That's more than half of cost. Combined govt $$$ put into project was $40.5 million. Here in Ct governor Malloy is okay with letting state of Ct pick up whole $250 million cost of Xl center renovation.

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Yes that was not a public building.

 

The XL is.

 

It would be awesome if a group built a building from scratch but why do that when one is already built But it's 43 years old.

 

It's a bit of a catch 22 no need to build from scratch but with it being a public building there is no private investment.

 

I am hoping that once the renovations are done they will sell the XL to the investment group and recoup the publics investment. Although even with that we'd never actually see a penny.

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Whalevolution wrote: Yes that was not a public building.

MTS Centre is not a public building... but govt still put $40.5 million of public money into building a private arena. The public partners in the public private partnership to build MTS Centre put in $40.5 million. The private partners in public private partnership to build MTS Centre put in $93 million. Because private partners put in more $$$ they got to own the building.

 

So, why can't we have a public private partnership to renovate Xl center? Use same % of total price tag that arena owning partner and non-owning partner put up in Winnipeg. The private partners in the public private partnership to renovate Xl center would be the Nhl investors and they could put in $75 million of $250 million renovation price. The public partners in public private partnership to renovate Xl center would be state of Ct and it could put in $175 million. Because State of Ct put up more money, it gets to be owner of building.

 

This way Nhl investors have skin in game as far as getting Xl center ready for Nhl team. Like you keep saying, without Xl center renovations there's no Nhl team. If supposed investment group is so strong and thinks Hartford is so great as potential Nhl city, let them show it by helping get the building its Nhl team would need to play in ready to be home to Nhl team. Since state of Ct wants to own building, investors shouldn't have to put up **ll price. But since investors need Xl center to be Nhl ready to be home arena for Nhl team, then they should put in some of the $$$ needed to make building Nhl ready.

Edited by Guest

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Whalevolution wrote: It's a bit of a catch 22 no need to build from scratch but with it being a public building there is no private investment.

It wasn't catch 22 in Winnipeg. $40.5 million in public money went into paying for construction of $133.5 million privately owned arena.

 

Whalevolution wrote: I am hoping that once the renovations are done they will sell the XL to the investment group and recoup the publics investment.

Wait a minute! What? :lol:

If you are hoping state of Ct just ends up selling Xl center to the investors after the renovation to recoup public $$$ the state spent on the renovation, why doesn't state just give Xl center to the investors and let the investors pay for the renovation to begin with?

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Whalevolution wrote:

I don't know?

 

But I do know why "Can't somebody else do it" isn't going to fly.

 

You are cracking me up, you are against any dime Of public money being used for XL.... yet provide an example where public money was used in Winnipeg. :D

 

Please tell me why that Billionaire deserved help but ours doesn't???

 

 

I'd love for them to sell the XL to a group with an NHL team post renovations. That would get all public money whiners to **** up.

 

You laughed at me for recouping the public money used with 140M profit if sold?

yet you don't want to use a dime of public money to begin with. Huh?

 

"Wait! What???" --- Is right on. I'm not sure why you suddenly flip flopped on public money being ok there but not here and you don't want any public money used here but find it crazy to recoup the publics original investment plus profit?

 

250M in sell it for 390m and now the group is **lly committed to this area.

I wouldn't be surprised if it happens. The public shouldn't own the XL anyway.

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Whalevolution wrote: I don't know? why don't you get on that and find out...ummkay?

I can't "find out" what your logic is for "hoping that once the renovations are done they will sell the XL to the investment group and recoup the publics investment."

I mean, you have been arguing that we can't expect private investors to put private money into $250 million renovation of Xl center because Xl center is a public building. But then you say that you are hoping that after the state of Ct has paid public $$$ for a $250 million renovation of a public building, that the state of Ct will then sell that public building to the private investors to recoup the cost of the $250 million in public $$$ that was spent on the renovation. That doesn't make sense. If the state of Ct is willing to sell Xl center to the private investors to recoup $250 million in public $$$ that was spent on renovation, why wouldn't state of Ct just give Xl center to the private investors and let the private investors spend their own $250 million to renovate the Xl center themselves? And if private investors were willing to spend $250 million to buy the Xl center from state of Ct after the state of Ct spent $250 million on renovations to the arena, why wouldn't private investors be willing to just accept Xl center from state of Ct for free and then spend $250 million of their own private $$$ to renovate Xl center privately? Same end result either way.

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Whalevolution wrote: I'll give you a hint. "Can't somebody else do it" --is a lame reason.

I'll tell you what is "lame". You arguing private investors can't be expected to invest any $ into $250 million reno of Xl because it is public building, but then hoping that once Ct has spent $250 million of public $ on renovating public Xl center that state would then sell building to private investors for $250 million of private $ to recoup spending of public $ on the reno. Why don't you think Ct would just be willing to give Xl center to private investors and let them spend their own private $ to reno building once it was privately owned. It is same end result.

 

Whalevolution wrote: You are cracking me up, you are against any dime Of public money being used for XL.... yet provide an example where public money was used in Winnipeg. :D

I am against any public $ being spent by state of Ct on reno of Xl center to Nhl standards if supposed private Nhl investors that we keep hearing are planning to put Nhl team in Xl aren't willing to help by investing some private $ in reno that will benefit their team.

In Winnipeg, private investors paid $93 million of $133.5 million price of MTS Centre and govt paid $40.5 million of price of MTS Centre. MTS centre was true partnership between public and private partners. Because private put up more of $, MTS Centre is private arena.

I want to see true partnership between public and private on Xl center. If Ct wants to keep Xl center as public building after reno, I would not be against Ct paying $175 million of reno cost and private investors paying $75 million of reno cost. If private investors want Xl center to be private building after reno, private investors should pay $175 million of reno cost and Ct should pay $75 million. Share of revenue streams besides $ directly coming from Nhl games can also be split between public and private partners based on who puts more money into reno.

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Whalevolution wrote: Please tell me why that Billionaire deserved help but ours doesn't???

I'm not saying that state of Ct shouldn't put any $$$ into Xl center renovation. I'm saying true public private partnership should happen in Hartford just like true public private partnership happened in Winnipeg. Private investors AND govt put $$$ into construction of MTS centre in Winnipeg. Why shouldn't private investors AND govt put $$$ into renovation of Xl center? In Winnipeg building arena was going to be privately owned, so private investors put in majority of $$$ for construction. Here in Hartford, if state wants Xl center to stay publicly owned after renovation then state should put majority of $$$ into renovation. But, if private investors would want Xl center to be privately owned after renovation, then private investors should put majority of $$$ into renovation.

 

Whalevolution wrote: I'd love for them to sell the XL to a group with an NHL team post renovations. That would get all public money whiners to **** up.

Why is it whining to want both public AND private partners in business relationship to both put in their fair share of $$$.

 

Whalevolution wrote: 250M in sell it for 390m

How do you arrive at those prices? Just wondering.

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Whalevolution wrote: "Wait! What???" --- Is right on. I'm not sure why you suddenly flip flopped on public money being ok there but not here and you don't want any public money used here but find it crazy to recoup the publics original investment plus profit?

I haven't flip flopped. I have always said Ct could put $$$ into Xl center reno as long as investors in Nhl team coming to hartford were also required to put $$$ into reno. If anyone has flip flopped it is you. You are suddenly talking about how you hope state of Ct will sell Xl center to investors after reno is complete. First I've heard about that out here from you is today.

 

Whalevolution wrote: 250M in sell it for 390m and now the group is **lly committed to this area.

Is the investor group not **lly committed now? You've been out here trumpeting these guys as such a "strong" investor group. Getting the investors "**lly committed to this area" is why I have always thought that they should have to invest $$$ in the reno.

 

Whalevolution wrote: The public shouldn't own the XL anyway.

About time you came around to that realization. Or at least it is about time you publicly said so.

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WhalerChad wrote

> Whalevolution wrote: "Wait! What???" - Is right on. I'm not

> sure why you suddenly flip flopped on public money being ok there but

> to put $$$ into reno. If anyone has flip flopped it is you. You are

> suddenly talking about how you hope state of Ct will sell Xl center to

> investors after reno is complete. First I've heard about that out here from

> you is today.

 

That's great because we have an investor who will buy a team and certainly will spend some money here. So there's your flip flop, you're now in for the public **ndage thanks Bra! ;)

Now as to my flip flop, see I've only given you the flip. Now if I go on and say; we should never sell the XL to the private sector! Now see there's your "flop". I can't see myself giving you the flop though. Ha

There would have to be some very odd reason for me not to want a team more committed to Hartford than not.

 

> Whalevolution wrote: 250M in sell it for 390m and now the group is **lly

> committed to this area.

> Is the investor group not **lly committed now? You've been out here

> trumpeting these guys as such a "strong" investor group. Getting

> the investors "**lly committed to this area" is why I have always

> thought that they should have to invest $$$ in the reno.

 

Trumpeting? Really? Ok, fine, the are a couple of guys who own a few Arby's. That should bring it an octive or two lower.

 

Whalevolution wrote: The public shouldn't own the XL anyway.

> About time you came around to that realization. Or at least it is about

> time you publicly said so.

 

Yea I came around, on something I've never told you before or been asked.

As I said before I'd rather have an investor "more" committed to keeping the team here and I believe owning a new arena would make a team/investor "more" committed. I don't care if public keeps it or not but no issue with sale.Glad to set the record straight.

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Whalevolution wrote: That's great because we have an investor who will buy a team and certainly will spend some money here.

Is this investor willing to "certainly spend some money" on the renovation while it is being done? Or are your sources telling you that the state of Ct is going to have to put the whole $250 million up and hope to be reimbursed after the renovation is completed? Personally, I would prefer that state of Ct and Nhl investor truly partner up and BOTH pay into renovation **nd while renovation is going on. That would show that the investor is "**lly committed to this area".

 

Whalevolution wrote: So there's your flip flop, you're now in for the public **nd age thanks Bra! ;)

I have always thought that state of Ct could put public $$$ into Xl center renovation IF the supposed Nhl investors also had to put $$$ into the renovation.

 

Whalevolution wrote: Now as to my flop flop, see I've only given you the flip. Now if I go on and say; we should never sell the XL to the private sector! Now see there's your "flop". I can't see myself given you the flop though. Ha

Up until today I have never before seen you write or heard you say that there was any way you believed Nhl investor should have to put $$$ into Xl center renovation. Your take was state of Ct had to go all in on spending $250 million for Xl center reno because reno wasn't necessarily for Nhl team anyway. Your take was that because Xl center was public building that state should be completely responsible for reno cost.

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Whalevolution wrote: There would have to be some very odd reason for me not to want a team more committed to Hartford than not.

Do you think governor Malloy and state of Ct politicians should ask Nhl investor to be as committed to renovation of Xl center as True North investors asked govt leaders in Winnipeg and manitoba to be committed to building of MTS centre? In other words should Malloy and Ct politicians ask Nhl investor interested in bringing team to Hartford to commit $$$ to Xl center reno at same time state of Ct does?

In Winnipeg govt showed commitment to bringing Nhl team back to city by putting $40.5 million of public money into construction of arena they knew was going to be privately owned. True North investors put $93.0 million of private money into construction of arena. That was true partnership between public and private partners to bring Nhl back to Winnipeg. In Hartford why can't Nhl investor show commitment to bringing Nhl team back to city by putting $75 million of private money into renovation of arena that is publicly owned? At same time Malloy and Ct politicians will put $175 million of public money into renovation of arena. That would be true partnership between private and public partners to bring Nhl back to Hartford.

Or Malloy and Ct politicians could ask investor if he wants to take over ownership of Xl center. Malloy and Ct politicians can tell investor that state will show commitment to bringing Nhl team back to city by giving Xl center to investor before renovation begins and then putting minority amount of public $$$ into renovation of arena that is privately owned. Nhl investor would then be responsible for paying majority of the cost of renovating Xl center with private $$$, but he would also control a now privately owned building.

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Whalevolution wrote: Trumpeting? Really?

You have been telling us how legitimate these "strong" investors are. But you think it will take them buying Xl center for $390 million after reno to prove that they are "committed" to Hartford. Aren't they "committed" to Hartford already? I would love if investor not only ended up paying entire price of $250 million reno of Xl but also paid $140 million on top of that to buy Xl. I'd prefer if they put at least chunk of $$$ into reno as it was being done instead of paying whole $250 million back to state of Ct afterwards.

 

Whalevolution wrote: Yea I came around, on something I've never told you before or been asked.

Just found it a surprise. I never remember a hint of that attitude from you out here.

 

Whalevolution wrote: As I said before I'd rather have an investor "more" committed to keeping the team here and I believe owning a new arena would make them "more" committed.

I am all for pro sports owner being "committed" to city and state in which his team plays. I agree owning arena in which his team plays likely makes him "more committed" than not. Along same lines, I believe owner having to put some of his $$$ into cost of renovating arena his team is going to play in - arena you and I would like to see him eventually own - also will make him more committed to city and state.

 

Whalevolution wrote: Sounds like you had some misconceptions about me. Glad to set the record straight.

Seems like we have had misconceptions about each other.

That's problem with web message boards. It can take having to dig through misunderstandings and attitude to get to productive conversations.

Good back and forth, Whalevolution. Gotta run. Heading to volunteer meeting.

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