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Whalevolution

As we've been saying there is an investment group

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You're not missing anything.

 

You can't say there's no money for the XL Center, but there's money for other stuff. I don't want to hear about state employee pensions or schools or roads or anything else. If there's no money, there's no money. Period.

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MarkH2919 wrote:

> You're not missing anything.

>

> You can't say there's no money for the XL Center, but there's money for

> other stuff. I don't want to hear about state employee pensions or schools

> or roads or anything else. If there's no money, there's no money. Period.

 

 

A-FN-Men!!!!

 

Yup you want that pot hole on your street fixed?

 

Too bad no money it could go to something else that someone else thinks is more use**l.

 

Beauti**l table turning here

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MarkH2919 wrote:

> You're not missing anything.

>

> You can't say there's no money for the XL Center, but there's money for

> other stuff. I don't want to hear about state employee pensions or schools

> or roads or anything else. If there's no money, there's no money. Period.

 

Really? How does that work? If I want a Rolls Royce I can have it because I'm also going to buy bread, milk, and pay my electric bill?

 

It's thinking like this that has the state $8 billion in debt, and therefore unable to afford things like a new or rebuilt hockey arena...

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p42, why engage him. He's totally illogical and fixated on "The Whalers Returning" People's pensions, roads, schools and I'm sure he'd include courts, police,& prisons should no longer be financed unless a quarter of a billion probably much more in over costs for a building when you can't fill the present one. I think we all know this guy's got problems. What I'm surprised at is evo being on his page

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p4277 wrote:

> MarkH2919 wrote:

> > You're not missing anything.

> >

> > You can't say there's no money for the XL Center, but there's money for

> > other stuff. I don't want to hear about state employee pensions or schools

> > or roads or anything else. If there's no money, there's no money. Period.

>

> Really? How does that work? If I want a Rolls Royce I can have it because I'm also

> going to buy bread, milk, and pay my electric bill?

>

> It's thinking like this that has the state $8 billion in debt, and therefore unable

> to afford things like a new or rebuilt hockey arena...

 

They should Close QU save some money no one cares about QU anyway. How'd that feel? On a scale of 1-10 say?

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"It's thinking like this that has the state $8 billion in debt, and therefore unable to afford things like a new or rebuilt hockey arena..."

 

LOL...again, if there's no money for a renovation, then there's no money for other stuff either. Can't have it both ways.

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Does anyone know if while Malloy was talking to the investment group that is supposedly interested in bringing a Nhl team to Hartford the governor played hard-ball as negotiator and demanded same type of deal other states and cities did when pro sports teams wanted new arenas and stadiums and ballparks built or renovated? Did Malloy point at stadium construction and renovation projects in places like Las Vegas and New jersey and Vancouver and Montreal and Orlando and NYC and Columbus and Chicago and San Francisco and San Jose and Salt lake City and Philadelphia and Foxboro and Boston and say "If you guys want Xl Center renovated then you are going to have to pay for 100% of it like MLB and NBA and NHL and NFL and MLS teams did in states and cities all around the country."? If he didn't, why not? Why doesn't he demand same deal other states and cities got from other pro sports team owners?

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How come other states told sports leagues and team owners they would have to pay to build their own arenas and stadiums? How come sports team owners in other states had to find way to make it work with them paying for 100% of construction?

T-Mobile arena Nhl = 100% privately paid construction

Metlife Stadium Nfl = 100% private paid construction on state owned land

Rogers arena Nhl = 100% privately paid construction

le centre Bell Nhl = 100% private paid construction

Saputo stadium Mls = 100% private paid construction

MSG Nhl and NBA = original construction and rehab 100% privately paid

Orlando City stadium Mls = 100% privately paid construction

Mapfre Stadium Mls = 100% private paid construction

Nationwide arena Nhl = 100% private paid construction

AT&T Park Mlb = 100% privately paid construction with tax abatement from city and infrastructure help from city

Avaya stadium Mls = 100% private paid construction

United center Nhl NBA = 100% privately paid construction with infrastructure help from city

Energy solutions arena NBa = 100% privately paid construction with land grant from city

Wells Fargo center Nhl Nba = 100% private paid construction with infrastructure help from city

Gillette Stadium Nfl = 100% privately paid construction with infrastructure help from state that has to be paid back

TD Garden Nhl NBA = 100% privately paid construction built in air rights over city and state owned rail station

Why can't Malloy negotiate deal with supposed Nhl investors like one of these deals? Why is he saying "Come to Hartford and state will pay 100% of $250 million Xl center renov for you"?

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Whalevolution wrote: They should Close QU save some money no one cares about QU anyway.

Your statement makes no sense. If state of Ct was paying the bills to operate Quinnipiac U then state of Ct could make call on closing Quinnipiac. But Quinnipiac is PRIVATE university **nded independently. It is not a PUBLIC university **nded by state of Ct.

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WhalerChad wrote:

> Does anyone know if while Malloy was talking to the investment group that

> is supposedly interested in bringing a Nhl team to Hartford the governor

> played hard-ball as negotiator and demanded same type of deal other states

> and cities did when pro sports teams wanted new arenas and stadiums and

> ballparks built or renovated? Did Malloy point at stadium construction and

> renovation projects in places like Las Vegas and New jersey and Vancouver

> and Montreal and Orlando and NYC and Columbus and Chicago and San Francisco

> and San Jose and Salt lake City and Philadelphia and Foxboro and Boston and

> say "If you guys want Xl Center renovated then you are going to have

> to pay for 100% of it like MLB and NBA and NHL and NFL and MLS teams did in

> states and cities all around the country."? If he didn't, why not? Why

> doesn't he demand same deal other states and cities got from other pro

> sports team owners?

 

Simple because the XL is a publicly owned building. some of you guys are acting like you own a car the transmission goes and your solution is to ask someone else to pay for it or act like you can sell your broken car like buyers for broken cars grow on trees. This XL thing get used to it because it's your problem, if you live in Ct. it's my problem. If the arena was owned by Comcast it would be their problem

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Whalevolution wrote:> Simple because the XL is a publicly owned building. some of you guys are acting like you own a car the transmission goes and your solution is to ask someone else to pay for it or act like you can sell your broken car like buyers for broken cars grow on trees. This XL thing get used to it because it's your problem, if you live in Ct. it's my problem. If the arena was owned by Comcast it would be their problem

 

Then tell investors that if they are willing to pay for 100% of renovation of Xl center that investors can keep the building and control all revenues from building. State and city can keep land the arena is built on and lease it to investors for reasonable rate. State and city get revenue from renting land to investors and from annual taxes. Investors get revenue from running building and hockey team. Let entertainment company like Nhl team own and run an entertainment venue like Xl center. Get government out of business of owning and operating an entertainment venue. It is not government's job to be in entertainment business. Government's job is maintaining public safety and public education and judicial system and maintaining public roads and collecting revenue through taxes to support those responsibilities. Plus this way arena won't be state's responsibility and when arena loses money state won't be losing money.

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Or other option is State of Ct could decide to bond lesser amount of money. Like just enough to improve mechanical systems that have been breaking down and get Xl center at current capacity up to date. No need to bond whole $250 million for a 2nd concourse and more seats up to 18,000. Just make Xl center the best arena for Uconn hoops and hockey, minor league sports (Ahl or Echl hockey, NBA D-league basketball, indoor soccer, arena football, indoor lacrosse) and concerts that it can be. Work with architect so that building could still be able to add 2nd concourse and more seats someday, but not now when state can't afford it. If someday an investor comes along that thinks hartford could work for Nhl, let them pay for upgrades in exchange for taking **ll ownership & control of building. Again get state of Ct out of entertainment venue business

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Whalevolution wrote:

> They should Close QU save some money no one cares about QU anyway. How'd that feel?

> On a scale of 1-10 say?

 

Who is "they"? You and Mark? Your hatred of Quinnipiac is getting irrational. QU has no effect on the XL Center or the possible return of the NHL, you know that, right?

 

So, you disagree with my opinions on spending money fixing an arena for a non-existent team and so you would close down a university that has a hockey team that I support? Sounds like you need a little anger management therapy. On a scale of 1-10, it's insane...

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Mark and EVO are making the dumbest argument of all time. It's actually cringe worthy. We are in debt. Fact. You can't completely stop **nding for things that are actually essential or there would be total anarchy. Also Fact. The XL is not essential and piling on the debt for a 40 year old arena at the potential cost of public programs is reckless.

 

Also what does QU have ANYTHING to do with the XL or state money? You do realize they are a private university that raises **nds privately. Jesus this is the dumbest thing I've read on here and that is a tall task.

 

Basically we have two people on here arguing that the XL is more important than the welfare of state employees **tures, infrastructure, social programs an public schools.

 

Lol

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I like how the fact that Quinnipiac paid for their building themselves is being used to mock the concerns people have over building an NHL arena for no NHL team.

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"Basically we have two people on here arguing that the XL is more important than the welfare of state employees **tures, infrastructure, social programs an public schools."

 

Not quite.

 

What we're saying is that if there is no money for the XL Center, then there is no money to improve other things, like the welfare of state employees **tures, infrastructure, social programs and public schools.

 

Again, you can't have it both ways. If there's no money for one, there's no money for the other stuff too.

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I don't even know where to begin with this. Good lord. You're obviously aware that state **nded programs can't stop unless you want a complete collapse from the top down, right? Obviously you are aware there are ways to **nd projects and programs during trying times (you know like, taxes?) or else you wouldn't be arguing for spending it on a 40 year old building. Playing stupid is doing nothing but making you look stupid.

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Of course there are ways to **nd projects and programs. The point is you can't pick and choose which ones get it and which ones don't. And as we discussed yesterday, if the state didn't keep putting off doing something with the XL Center until now, we wouldn't be in this spot in regards to the XL Center.

 

The bottom line is I am sick and tired of hearing excuses for why the XL Center shouldn't be renovated...and these are excuses I've heard for 20 years or more. If Connecticut wants a large indoor facility for concerts, sports and family entertainment, one that can compete with the TD Gardens, the Bell Centres, the Prudential Centers, and the MSG's and Barclays Centers of the world, it's time to stop putting this off. Renovate the building, or close it. Those seem to be the options the state is looking at, despite what WhalerChad and others think. But...if you close it, then I don't want to hear that there is suddenly money for a bunch of other things.

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MarkH2919 wrote:

> Of course there are ways to **nd projects and programs. The point is you

> can't pick and choose which ones get it and which ones don't.

 

Actually, you can and you have to. Very few people or governments can afford everything they want. So you prioritize. The state already spends more than it takes in, that's why we have an $8 billion debt. And we have to make payments on that debt. Adding another quarter of a billion is a non-starter. Not because we hate Hartford, not because we don't want the NHL back, but because we just can't afford it.

 

> And as we discussed yesterday, if the state didn't keep putting off doing something

> with the XL Center until now, we wouldn't be in this spot in regards to the

> XL Center.

 

That's correct, the same people who are proposing to spend $250 million are the people who have mismanaged the building for years. Are we supposed to trust them with this m*****ive renovation now?

>

> If Connecticut wants a large indoor facility for concerts,

> sports and family entertainment, one that can compete with the TD Gardens,

> the Bell Centres, the Prudential Centers, and the MSG's and Barclays

> Centers of the world, it's time to stop putting this off.

 

Using TD Garden as an example? MSG? These arenas and many others were built with private money. Believe me, if there was a proposal to renovate or replace the XL Center by a private developer, I'd be all for it. I'm sure everyone would be.

 

> But...if you close it, then I don't want to hear that there is suddenly money for a bunch of other

> things.

 

First of all, I can't close it. That's way above my pay grade, and I suspect yours as well. There wouldn't suddenly be money for a bunch of other things, because this would be borrowed money. So it would not result in more money for other things, it would result in less debt. Considering how much debt we already have, that's important.

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"Actually, you can and you have to. Very few people or governments can afford everything they want. So you prioritize. The state already spends more than it takes in, that's why we have an $8 billion debt. And we have to make payments on that debt. Adding another quarter of a billion is a non-starter. Not because we hate Hartford, not because we don't want the NHL back, but because we just can't afford it. "

 

Then we can't afford other things either. Again, you can't have it both ways....this is what I've been trying to explain to you and others.

 

"Using TD Garden as an example? MSG? These arenas and many others were built with private money. Believe me, if there was a proposal to renovate or replace the XL Center by a private developer, I'd be all for it. I'm sure everyone would be."

 

Just talking about the arena itself, not who paid for it.

 

"First of all, I can't close it. That's way above my pay grade, and I suspect yours as well. There wouldn't suddenly be money for a bunch of other things, because this would be borrowed money. So it would not result in more money for other things, it would result in less debt. Considering how much debt we already have, that's important."

 

"You" was a generalization. As for the debt...yes, this would be borrowed money, but if the state is operating in a billion dollar deficit, there's no money for other stuff either, which means that money would have to be borrowed too.

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MarkH2919 wrote: Of course there are ways to **nd projects and programs. The point is you can't pick and choose which ones get it and which ones don't.

 

Yes you can. That is exactly what responsible government does. They make tough and responsible choices. Point is that in hard economic times choices are not really that difficult to make. Government's primary priority is to provide public safety (police and fire and emergency services), public education (make sure schools and school supplies and teacher pay and benefits are covered), public transportation (make sure streets and highways and sidewalks and street lights and traffic lights and traffic signs and public transit are safe condition and maintained), justice system (make sure courts exist to maintain legal order), and tax system (to pay for all of these essential services). In some places it also provides public utilities like water and power. Building and running and maintaining entertainment venue like arena is not essential service of government. It is a luxury and an extra. If you really don't understand that it is very disturbing.

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MarkH2919 wrote:

> Then we can't afford other things either. Again, you can't have it both

> ways....this is what I've been trying to explain to you and others.

 

It's not a question of "both ways". The state already spends lots of money, (too much, actually), on things currently. Those things, like state salaries, paying off debts, re-distributions to cities and towns, money for state colleges and universities, (which does NOT include Quinnipiac), are not going away. Adding a quarter of a billion dollars of new debt is something that the state should not be doing, IMO.

>

> Just talking about the arena itself, not who paid for it.

 

Who pays for it makes all the difference.

>

> "You" was a generalization. As for the debt...yes, this would be

> borrowed money, but if the state is operating in a billion dollar deficit,

> there's no money for other stuff either, which means that money would have

> to be borrowed too.

 

That's not true at all. It's not a question of "no money". The state takes in revenue from taxes all the time. And they spend money on things that I mentioned above all the time. Right now they are spending more than they take in, and have to borrow the difference.

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MarkH2919 wrote: Just talking about the arena itself, not who paid for it.

 

When your talking about amounts of money like $250 million and more, "who paid for it" is a pretty important point. You can't just not talk about it.

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We're going to have to agree to disagree on this, guys. You two and others obviously don't want the XL renovations, and would prefer to see the building close (which is absolutely mind-boggling to me) then spend $250M, and again Chad, before you start with the other options (which aren't going to happen), you should be reminded once again that it's the state itself, namely the governor and the man that runs the CRDA now that said the building would close if the renovations don't get done...and last time I checked...it was their call.

 

So...you guys are happy with no more pro hockey, regardless of league or level...UConn playing strictly on campus, and probably never moving into a Power Five conference, and for Hartford, our capital city, to be nothing more than a 9-5 city.

 

While there is part of me that's surprised....there is part of me that isn't. As Jeff Jacobs always says...Connecticut is a state of "169 petty fiefdoms", and you guys are once again proving him to be absolutely right.

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MarkH2919 wrote:

> We're going to have to agree to disagree on this, guys. You two and others

> obviously don't want the XL renovations, and would prefer to see the

> building close (which is absolutely mind-boggling to me) then spend $250M,

> and again Chad, before you start with the other options (which aren't going

> to happen), you should be reminded once again that it's the state itself,

> namely the governor and the man that runs the CRDA now that said the

> building would close if the renovations don't get done...and last time I

> checked...it was their call.

 

If you're going to speak for me, get it right. I'm not against renovating the XL Center. I'm against renovating it for the NHL, without a commitment from a team to come here.

 

And you're right, if it closes, it's their call, not mine. But you'll blame me, right?

 

> So...you guys are happy with no more pro hockey, regardless of league or

> level.

 

Are you saying no more Wolf Pack? Yeah, I can live with that...

Besides, there is AHL hockey in Bridgeport if you need your pro hockey fix.

 

If you're talking NHL, i haven't heard about any team moving here, have you?

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