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Wolf Pack renew XLC agreement

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On 3/9/2018 at 6:53 PM, Monizzle145 said:

Especially the part on if the Rangers are actually paying the Spectra/XL or not.

MSG is paying Spectra to manage the non hockey side the Wolf Pack. Spectra markets the team and sell tickets like WSE did. I don't think MSG has given any money to the XL Center since they stopped managing the building in 2007.

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Msg not paying squat they're getting paid to play here. That's what the affiliate fee is all about.  1.4m or 1.5m.  Spectra makes money off the tickets and we pay the affiliate fee. The state 

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In 2018 the Rangers benefit much more from this deal than Hartford and the XLC. In the first 5 years of the pack the venue was filled up and it drove much more people downtown. For youth hockey players like me it was a pipeline to see players who were going to the NHL very soon and were going to be 2nd or 3rd line pieces toward playoff runs after development.

Now the crowds are very thin, more prospects are starting in the NHL from day 1, and even with cheap beer and hot dogs they don't draw well. If they cut the entire wolf pack season and the XL could host 8 to 10 more concerts/comedians/kid shows instead of nearly 40 pack games the city and XL would be better off.  Concerts were getting 3 to 4 times as many people down to Hartford than a wolf pack game. And opening up all those dates for concerts would be better. Bands most likely go to Mohegan over Hartford just because of the wolf pack games getting in the way.

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I agree with almost everything you are saying.  In fact this was AEGs thought in 2013 and why they lost the contract in my opinion.  

10 concerts say they all sell out 155000 people 

The 38 WP games still draw 20k(avg) more than that and having some people buy parking concessions 38 times probably does about the same at 15k going in 10x 

150 dates at the XL 38 of those Pack, I just don't think the state wants the building dark that many nights 

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Would any other NHL partner do better though? Rangers are an original six team and have  for the most part put on a winning product most of the time. 

And there really isn't another obvious parent club. Since we are in the era where most NHL teams are moving their farm teams close. All the other NHL teams near Hartford have strong affiliations. 

I would say a local ownership group would be best. A group of Hartfore Business owners or something, like what happened in Springfield. Rangers would probably still be the best parent club. But I doubt they want to sell their AHL club. Since NHL teams owning AHL Clubs in a trend. 

Edited by Whalerwatch

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That would have been great if that was the way the team had been from the beginning. Like you said, the problem is that you can't do that now with NHL teams buying their affiliates and there being no other NHL option near Hartford anymore. That's why I don't understand how people think that if the Wolf Pack do leave then another AHL team still just move right in. The options are getting smaller and smaller, and former AHL cities around here either still don't have a team or have an ECHL teams. That would be so much worse, even if we had local owners.

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10 hours ago, TrueHartfordHockeyFan said:

The options are getting smaller and smaller, and former AHL cities around here either still don't have a team or have an ECHL teams. That would be so much worse, even if we had local owners.

This is very true. Even two or three years ago the argument could be made that eliminating the Wolf Pack would just bring in another team, like sand fills in a hole when digging at the beach. No so anymore. I can't believe I'm saying this, but Hartford is lucky to have the Wolf Pack right now.

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The sports landscape has changed drastically in terms of major league teams and their affiliates.  The pro teams want their minor league teams close by.  

So...I agree with Mr. BB.  That said...the WolfPack (and this falls more on Spectra than anybody else) still need to do more to cater to the entire fanbase, not just the few Rangers fans the city has.  

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4 hours ago, MarkH2919 said:

If we had local ownership, we might still have the Rangers affiliation.  People forget that.

That would mean MSG would have to sell the team, and that's not happening. They have complete control and that the way they want it. The independent teams are dying, and the NHL teams that don't own their affiliates are seeing that. Even Hershey had had problems with the Capitals not waiting their contracted player doing certain promotions. They're was even talk that they might pull there affiliation because they issues they were having. So, local ownership might not be a good thing.

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17 minutes ago, MarkH2919 said:

The sports landscape has changed drastically in terms of major league teams and their affiliates.  The pro teams want their minor league teams close by.  

So...I agree with Mr. BB.  That said...the WolfPack (and this falls more on Spectra than anybody else) still need to do more to cater to the entire fanbase, not just the few Rangers fans the city has.  

I still don't see how the team is "marketed towards Rangers fans." They don't market the team to Whalers fans but they do market the team to hockey fans and that's all that should matter honestly.

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"That would mean MSG would have to sell the team, and that's not happening. They have complete control and that the way they want it. The independent teams are dying, and the NHL teams that don't own their affiliates are seeing that. Even Hershey had had problems with the Capitals not waiting their contracted player doing certain promotions. They're was even talk that they might pull there affiliation because they issues they were having. So, local ownership might not be a good thing."

That wasn't really my point...then again, you never seem to get my point anyway.

My point was that people forget that if we had local ownership (and for the record, I doubt that's ever going to happen), we might still have the Rangers affiliation anyway.  Meaning local ownership doesn't necessarily get rid of the Rangers.

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Never used the word "marketed" in my last post.  

Fraudie, if you're going to criticize what I say, the least you can do is get what I say correct. 

 

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If Wolfpack left , ECHL would be the best chance of getting another team. It would take a Springfield like miracle or a major affilation shake up to get another AHL team. But its clear something needs to be imprkved to get fans to the games. 

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There is more than enough evidence to suggest that Hartford can support a team, regardless of level.  But, the numbers the Pack draw, for the most part, are terrible.  They're going to be outdrawn by Springfield for a 2nd straight year...and the margin seems to be getting wider.  

 

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2 hours ago, MarkH2919 said:

and the margin seems to be getting wider. 

False, late November/early December the margin was about 1500. It's now down to about 800ish

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Well, I was basing it on last year compared to this year.

Last year -- WolfPack averaged 4238, T-Birds averaged 4664.  Difference = 426

This year -- WolfPack average 4087, T-Birds average 4814.  Difference = 727

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On 3/14/2018 at 8:51 PM, Whalerwatch said:

If Wolfpack left , ECHL would be the best chance of getting another team. It would take a Springfield like miracle or a major affilation shake up to get another AHL team. But its clear something needs to be imprkved to get fans to the games. 

Honestly if we just had uconn hockey downtown the market would be fine. There are less games putting emphasis on every home game. If they could fill up just Uconn hockey games and get higher concessions and ticket sales for less dates i think the balance sheet finance wise would be better.

Now i think EVO has a point that overall losing the 38 dates may hurt local parking and wages for workers at the XL. But clearly given the low turnout for the pack the cost to play those games only going up and the ticket and concession revenue going down it is a big factor for profitability for the venue.

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58 minutes ago, Monizzle145 said:

Honestly if we just had uconn hockey downtown the market would be fine. There are less games putting emphasis on every home game. If they could fill up just Uconn hockey games and get higher concessions and ticket sales for less dates i think the balance sheet finance wise would be better.

Now i think EVO has a point that overall losing the 38 dates may hurt local parking and wages for workers at the XL. But clearly given the low turnout for the pack the cost to play those games only going up and the ticket and concession revenue going down it is a big factor for profitability for the venue.

Those 38 games account for $3.5 million just in ticket sales. That's not counting concessions, parking, mechanise, or suite sales. UConn gets about $1 million in tickets from their 17 games. That number will be less this year since their average has been going down and they had games were they sold tickets for $10.

Also, I think going from 56 hockey games to 17 would hurt the market more than you think. People not coming down to Hartford is a really bad thing for the city and market. People that don't come down here think of the area and the XL Center as a ghetto or some place where they have to worry about being shot or robbed. Replacing the Wolf Pack with concerts won't help the market either because people will continue to stop thinking of Hartford as a hockey city especially since UConn is guaranteed to stay there forever. They just submitted a bonding plan that includes money for upgrades to their rink on campus to expand it to either 3500 or 4500 seats. If they go with the 4500 option then they will only be playing 2 or 3 games in Hartford.

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4 minutes ago, TrueHartfordHockeyFan said:

Those 38 games account for $3.5 million just in ticket sales. That's not counting concessions, parking, mechanise, or suite sales. UConn gets about $1 million in tickets from their 17 games. That number will be less this year since their average has been going down and they had games were they sold tickets for $10.

Also, I think going from 56 hockey games to 17 would hurt the market more than you think. People not coming down to Hartford is a really bad thing for the city and market. People that don't come down here think of the area and the XL Center as a ghetto or some place where they have to worry about being shot or robbed. Replacing the Wolf Pack with concerts won't help the market either because people will continue to stop thinking of Hartford as a hockey city especially since UConn is guaranteed to stay there forever. They just submitted a bonding plan that includes money for upgrades to their rink on campus to expand it to either 3500 or 4500 seats. If they go with the 4500 option then they will only be playing 2 or 3 games in Hartford.

Where are these figures coming from regarding revenue for Wolf Pack Games? I could say the same concept concession wise with the pack if they are selling 2 dollar beers and 1 dollar hot dogs  on friday's that revenue is going down. On top of all that the operational costs for games and practices for the wolf pack easily  can outweigh the profit coming into the city.

The hockey culture in hartford doesn't depend on AHL or NHL hockey being downtown. There are more hockey viewers i know now (that didn't grow up playing the sport) than there was 10 years ago when i was in high school. This is due to the success of both the Bruins and Rangers and kids that never saw one of my high school games 10 years ago (when we were #1 in the state for a month) but go to hockey games in Boston and New York often or watch on TV/NHL apps.

And from an energy perspective the top uconn hockey games at the XL > the top wolf pack games

The pack even on scout night or opening night aren't nearly as loud as the BC, BU, and UNH games. I would rather have the community rally around just Uconn hockey than a rangers affiliate.

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4 hours ago, Monizzle145 said:

Where are these figures coming from regarding revenue for Wolf Pack Games? I could say the same concept concession wise with the pack if they are selling 2 dollar beers and 1 dollar hot dogs  on friday's that revenue is going down. On top of all that the operational costs for games and practices for the wolf pack easily  can outweigh the profit coming into the city.

The hockey culture in hartford doesn't depend on AHL or NHL hockey being downtown. There are more hockey viewers i know now (that didn't grow up playing the sport) than there was 10 years ago when i was in high school. This is due to the success of both the Bruins and Rangers and kids that never saw one of my high school games 10 years ago (when we were #1 in the state for a month) but go to hockey games in Boston and New York often or watch on TV/NHL apps.

And from an energy perspective the top uconn hockey games at the XL > the top wolf pack games

The pack even on scout night or opening night aren't nearly as loud as the BC, BU, and UNH games. I would rather have the community rally around just Uconn hockey than a rangers affiliate.

Well that's just crazy and would lose the city millions of dollars. You also forget that UConn isn't going to be in Hartford permanently. They have said that multiple times and are getting the money together to move at least half of their games back to Storrs, if not more.

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16 hours ago, TrueHartfordHockeyFan said:

Well that's just crazy and would lose the city millions of dollars. You also forget that UConn isn't going to be in Hartford permanently. They have said that multiple times and are getting the money together to move at least half of their games back to Storrs, if not more.

By taking on the entire wolf pack season the venue is already in the red. That means something is happening where those pack games are not profitable. Because the concerts are doing well and most of the kids shows get decent draws as well as the Wrestling. The pack are more of a liability to pay the bills for staff and facilities than they are an *****et.

As far as uconn hockey unless i see money truly going toward the Ice Forumn i will see it to believe it. The home ice advantage is much greater downtown for big games than it would be on campus. The games downtown bring in the community in good numbers for the bigger scale opponents. And that is something Uconn could use to compete. BU (home game 2), UNH, and BC had large crowds and the team played better than most games with those big crowds. UNH was the most agressive/physical i had seen the team all year.

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