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VinceCT

WhalerTalk, My Assessment

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Vince “I'm not saying they had to win the Cup but really. Perhaps a third place finish would have been nice. Perhaps more than one fluke playoff win would have been nice as well. Perhaps they could have skunked the Bruins in 1990 instead of handing the series to them on a platter (or did you all forget the blown 5-2 lead in game four).”

 

Yea it happened, we lose in the playoffs and we finished fourth. Yet fans in this city throw a parade for lovable losers, I think that proves we are a good hockey market.

 

Vince “By the way if you are still moaning over Ray Ferraro you really don't know much about hockey.”

 

Really?? Ferarro had a 40 goal season after he left the Whalers, he finished with over 400 NHL goals and getting Doug Crossman was a good deal for him? That one is way south of cheese Vince. Not sure of your thought process there.

 

>>>Jerry knows I hate the Bruins, I remind him of it, but frankly thats his problem not mine.lol<<<

You're damn right that's his problem. It is an irreconcilable contradiction to be a Bruins fan and a Whalers fan. I will not debate it.

 

Ha, I agree and will tell him that he will tell you he cant root for a NY based team, and he is a Red Sox fan to boot. But seriously Jerry is a good guy and he can root for whoever he wants but he should expect some friendly jabbing from me about it as most of my Bruin loving friends receive.

 

Vince "Screw You!!! I have forgotten more about hockey than you will ever learn. I am sorry I have the knowledge and sense to understand the realities of the situation."

 

OK, well that will be your little secret then.

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Whalepack, Dineen must have sniffed him out as not being a good Hartford hockey fan when Vince tried to get a Dineen autograph last April in the XL.

 

Vince you have some work ahead of you but I believe you are capable of getting back into the Hartford Hockey culture and atmosphere at games.

 

If you want I can see if we can get you an Andy Rooney segement on Whaler Talk. You can push your grumpy bitter rants.

I see it as an Oscar the Grouch/Muppet Old Men in Balcony kinda character. You will be good comedic levity to the show.

 

Contact me on my Examiner site, and I will talk to you about it in more detail.

Search 'Peter Hindle' on Examiner.com

 

Yes I am totally serious.

http://www.examiner.com/connecticut-whale-in-hartford/peter-hindle

 

Vince you remember a year ago when you said repeatedly that no one here would ever put together a TV Show? Whoops on you huh?

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>>>Yea it happened, we lose in the playoffs and we finished fourth. Yet fans in this city throw a parade for lovable losers, I think that proves we are a good hockey market.<<<

I say the empty seats and Bruin fans at Whaler playoff games trumps that silly parade. It gets even sillier as the years go by.

 

>>>Ferraro/Crossman wasn't a good trade, Vince. He's got you there.<<<

No he doesn't. When Ferraro was dumped he wasn't doing anything. From the 90-91 Yearbook page 62: "1989-90...However his season was marred by a severe late-season drought which saw him score just one goal in his final 27 games." Add the 0-fer against the Bruins in the playoffs (that's another seven games) and the two goals in the first 15 games the following season and you have a stunning three goals over nearly 50 games. So what was Ed Johnston supposed to do wait it out??? The Whalers started slow in 90-91 if I remember correctly and you have one of your alleged top forward in an extended stink out. You're not going to get much for someone in that cir*****stance. Certainly a seven-year veteran like Ferraro had plenty of time to snap out of it. Naturally he has one decent year with New York and one huge playoff run the following year. So what do we do? Why of course we blame Johnston for trading him like any other group of lame-o fans. I'm sorry it is obvious you did not really follow your own players.

 

Here is Ray's player page from Hockey-Reference.com for your own research: http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/f/ferrara01.html

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>>>This is very interesting Vince it gives us alot of insight into why you are and why you are the way you are. I never realized that these rants you have may be equivalent to group therapy for you. I am not even being a wise *****.<<<

Sure sounds like you are. Do you think I am the only person who can relay such stories about being a fan? I just the only one pointing them out.

 

>>>Dude, seriously these are such childish thoughts, if you were a teenager I could understand but sports and jerseys loyalties mean little when you love Hockey!<<<

Shove It!!! So you thought it was cool to see a building **ll of fans wearing jerseys of the opponents? I sure didn't. I guess I took it a little more seriously than you.

 

>>>Vince you have some work ahead of you but I believe you are capable of getting back into the Hartford Hockey culture and atmosphere at games.<<<

Really Obi-Wan??? Brother what sanctimonious crud. I was part of "Hartford Hockey culture" once. Since it does not exist, and never really did in the first place, there is nothing to get back into.

 

>>?Whalepack, Dineen must have sniffed him out as not being a good Hartford hockey fan when Vince tried to get a Dineen autograph last April in the XL. <<<

So you buy WhalePack's lies. Great, it shows what you are made of.

 

In case you need to be told, no I have no interest in contacting you or being on your show.

 

End of discussion.

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So let's review...

 

Ferraro was a pretty consistent 20-30 goal scorer. 12 seasons in his career of 20+ goals. Yes, he had a bad 2nd half of the 1989-90 season. Yes, he had a bad playoff. Ferraro still had a pretty decent career after the trade, including another 40 goal season with the Islanders in 1991/92.

 

Crossman, meanwhile, played just 41 games with the Whalers before being traded for Doug Houda. The same Doug Houda that scored 6, count them...6 goals in 2 seasons plus with the Whalers.

 

Yes Vince, that was a bad trade for the Whalers.

 

As you like to say...

 

End of discussion.

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So how long were the Whalers supposed to wait until Ferraro snapped out of it? I cannot believe I have to spell it out for you guys. But since our collective hockey knowledge could fit on the head of a pin I guess this is necessary. Ray Ferraro was an insignificant player in the NHL. Sure he liked to talk and was good with the media. But he was no star by any stretch. A mostly mediocre player who never helped the Whalers achieve anything above mediocrity.

 

The most common description of the Whalers were they were mediocre. So what do you do? Watch the same players year after year as they get older and win nothing and do nothing because the team needs to worry about whether or not the fans will approve? Yeah in the long run nothing changed except the fans and media fawned over the ex-Whalers winning elsewhere. Meanwhile fans such as myself who actually used their brains were left wondering why this did not happen here.

 

But go ahead Mark and live in your virtual world you moron. Maybe when you croak you can be buried in a Ray Ferraro jersey.

Edited by Guest

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The stats proved it was a bad trade. You get pissed when we don't research, then you get double pissed when the stats prove you wrong, as they so often do.

 

Oh, and this isn't a love affair for Ray Ferraro, all I said was that it was a bad trade. History proves that statement to be correct.

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Vince, the idea of waiting out mediocrity isn't what's being pointed out, its the ridiculous lack of value that Hartford got in return for better than average talent time and again. Like the Whalers did no homework on their incoming "talent". If waiting for Ferraro to snap out of a slump was worse than Crossman/Houda who did NOTHING here at all, then I'm not sure I'd make you my GM. Trading Ferraro is fine, IF you get back equal value. Name one trade of the upper echilon Whalers traded between 1989 and 1994 that brought back equal or god forbid GREATER value.

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I remember Doug Crossman being a pretty good offensive defenseman, scored some goals, but being a liability in the defensive end. Ferraro was one of the key Whaler team guys, even if he did have some bad stretches. Mark is right that it was a bad trade, one of so many by EJ.

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Btw, the thing I will agree on with Vince is the period from 1992 to 1994 where many people in CT would make **n of you for being a Whalers fan, when they weren't too busy being front running, bandwagon UConn types haha.

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Got that right WhaleGuy. I had seasn tix to UCONN hoops from 1989 and in 1993 was pushed out of the building by corporate who was donating more money than I had as a college kid to keep my seats in the building. UCONN mania swept through the state because they were winning on the national stage and the Whalers were slipping and slipping fast. Such a sad time...I truly believe that CT has learned its lesson about taking the Whalers for granted and if we get a second chance, it'll be a totally different story.

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Before I respond I have to make a correction. I quoted the 90-91 Whaler Yearbook mentioning Ferraro's slump. The quote stated he scored one goal in final 27 games of the season. So for laughs I did some research using the Yearbook (pages 62, 106, 107) and this site: http://www.whalershockey.com. The site allows you to enter dates of past games. A link is provided to all available boxscores. So I wanted to check to find out the actual numbers involved. Well the yearbook was incorrect. Ferraro had 5 goals in the final 27 games of the 89-90 season. After a short goal streak ending on Feb. 18 he scored only one goal in the final 20 games. So for the final 49 games as a Whaler Ferraro had only 7 goals and as little as 10 *****ists for 17 points. I say "as little as" because the site mentioned only lists goal scorers. Either way my point is correct. Ferraro was stinking it up. Something had to be done.

 

The general criticism of my analysis is the notion of getting value for players. How much value can you get for someone like Ferraro at that time? Some of you just would have sat around and did nothing and if nothing happened then that would have been fine. So we didn't get a Hart winner in return. What were we dealing with? By the way even though Ferraro was lousing up and finished the 89-90 season with twice as many PIMs as points (109-54) he was voted Favorite Whaler by the fans showing that results don't matter to some.

 

End of Part One.

Edited by Guest

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Once again I ask how much value can you get for players that don't win? Jimmy the Idiot (how appropriate) asks for specifics. Well Ron and Ulf were traded for the then 5th leading scorer in the league and a young defenseman with what was believed a high upside. Were Cullen and Zalapski disappointing? Sure they were. But then again so were Ron and Ulf. After all they never led the Whalers anywhere but they sure found themselves in Pitt. Again I'm not saying they had to win it all here, but they could have done more.

 

So you don't thing Murray Craven was any good? Then you were not watching very closely. Mike Liut had a good season in 89-90 but if I remember correctly there was a contract issue coming up. Besides he never was a big time goalie. He never won four games of a seven game playoff in his career. Also he was out of the league by 1992 so how much did he have left?

 

Sorry folks, my points still hold up. If you want to complain about losing go right ahead. But it is a cop out to complain about trading the players that did the losing. This is not Edmonton.

 

End of discussion.

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Of course, the dumb***** doesn't get that I wasn't talking about the other trades. I was talking about one trade in particular, a trade that for all intents and purposes got the Whalers Doug Houda for Ray Ferraro. That trade, no matter how you look at it, provided of course that you have an IQ of over 3 1/2, is aw**l from a Hartford perspective.

 

The other trades...well...some were good, the Craven for Dineen trade at the time was a good trade for the Whalers...others were as bad or worse than the Ferraro deal.

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The point is stupid is that there is no reason why anyone should be pining over someone like Ray Ferraro. The fact that there was no accountability until AFTER all the "favorite Whalers" were traded showed how little most fans here paid attention to what was going on. Ferraro was a nobody, period.

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Holy crap. Nobody was "pining" over Ferraro, they didn't get close to what he was worth, and once again that's not debatable.

 

And Ferraro, this "nobody" ended up with a much better career than either Doug Crossman or Doug Houda.

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The only reason Cullen was the 5th highest scorer is because he was playing with Mario in Pittsburgh. The Whalers had no one to put his p*****es in the net, plus all the dumb ***** did was fall down. The key to the trade was Zalapski. Every team needs a strong, puck moving defenseman and he was thought to be a rising star. Most publications thought the Whalers had gotten the better of the trade and if it had worked out, EJ would have been considered not a huge moron. The thing missing from his mind was the effect of trading our most popular player on fan support and losing Ulfie on team chemistry. I hear though that Ulf was going to go back to Sweden and Gordon ordered EJ to dump Francis.

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EJ was ordered to make the trade by Gordon, according to Baldwin Jrs Facebook site, it has nothing to do with trying to make a good trade it was trying to save money first and get quality players 2nd.

 

Ronnie and Ulfie were proven players who were going to require larger contracts going forward, no question about that. Dumping them and getting a prospect offensive defenseman who couldn't cut the mustard and a third line finesse center who has a one year claim to fame because he was helped playing behind Lemiuex with other shooters to p***** too. Cullen wasnt a proven producer.

The trade was TOP heavy from our end and listing as soon as it left Adrian's Landing. Our late eighties momentum thoroughly extinguished as the end began. As I stated originally on Whaler talk, attendance declined after that terrible cost cutting trade.

 

No question, I had hopes ZZ and Cullen would be lighting in a bottle but they ****ed and no one goes to see inadequate hockey players screw up when you had better players before. How else would a fan base communicate their dissatisfaction with the product on the ice?

 

This model is so not exclusive to Hartford, its something more like. Human nature.

 

It wasnt till Brian Burke became GM that trades started to be much more productive

Holik for Burke for example

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>>>The only reason Cullen was the 5th highest scorer is because he was playing with Mario in Pittsburgh<<<

Wrong exhaust pipe breath! Lemieux missed over 50 games in 90-91 due to injury. Cullen, along with Kevin Stevens and Mark Recchi, kept Pittburgh in the playoff hunt and not in the Eric Lindros hunt. What is his reward? Well he gets traded to a place where maybe about 10% of the fans had even heard of him.

 

>>>Holy crap. Nobody was "pining" over Ferraro, they didn't get close to what he was worth<<<

We didn't get much for him because he was not doing anything when he was traded you *****crack!

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So at least we're in agreement that the Ferraro trade got them less then what he was worth.

 

It took a while, but thanks Vince. It's about time you came around.

 

as you say...End of discussion.

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Vince is usually at one game per year whether he knows it or not. You'll most likely be able to get Kevin Dineen's autograph however before you'll get Vince's - ask Vince why!

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