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Biggie1083

Islanders moving to Brooklyn.

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As you type do you read what you say, islanders have 40 years of history and were the team of the 80's.. They didn't save the islanders, they are moving, now you have 3 teams about 30 min from each other, rangers, devils and islander.. Still no point to what you are saying.. Hartford is a hockey market, well was when the whalers were there,attendance wasn't there problem, and pk was offered and arena deal better than he got... Still where did Bettman say he is anti hartford

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Whaleofatime wrote:

> Monizzle145 wrote:

> > "Being on that list you need a larger fan

> > support (which we don't have)"

>

> Yes the fan bases in OH, FLA and PHX markets defiantly prove this. :roll:

 

haha they aren't on the list because they already have teams that are failing...but the reason betman was for that expansion because he thought there would gain new fans. this so called list for a new team (and i emphasize new cause you were not paying attention) includes markets that would sustain a team after the failed attempts in recent and current markets (and i emphasize current cause you were not paying attention.) They aren't moving the panthers the mobile alabama. but for **ture transfers or expansions (again i emphasize **ture) you need to prove people will come to games which last time i checked the hartford market isn't doing.

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jerseydiehardwhaler wrote:

> As you type do you read what you say, islanders have 40 years of history

> and were the team of the 80's.. They didn't save the islanders, they are

> moving, now you have 3 teams about 30 min from each other, rangers, devils

> and islander.. Still no point to what you are saying.. Hartford is a hockey

> market, well was when the whalers were there,attendance wasn't there

> problem, and pk was offered and arena deal better than he got... Still

> where did Bettman say he is anti hartford

 

the move today was to keep a current team in the largest market in the NHL. Yes attendance wont spike up magically but if the islanders start winning it will keep great rivalries with the devils rangers flyers etc. it also keeps the atlantic conference stable past 2015 so they don't have to shuffle the new conference formations coming. And given the size of the new york market that is why there are 3 teams 30 mins from each other.

 

My point is while bettman has not said it word for word he doesn't want another team in the northeast/mid atlantic to add to what is already cluttered. In interviews he talks about expansions and capturing new markets. And in the case of winnipeg it was going back to an old market that proved it was ready not just with an arena but attendance. In hartford people arent supporting the ahl heavily but in winnipeg they did. The league noticed this and thats why they made capacity exceptions.

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> > Monizzle145 wrote:

 

> They aren't moving the panthers the mobile alabama. but for **ture

> transfers or expansions (again i emphasize **ture) you need to prove people will come

> to games which last time i checked the hartford market isn't doing.

 

But Atlanta proved this with the Flames enough to warrant an expansion team? Whalers NEVER went below 10k PAID with ticket prices at the time consistent with the upper half of the league. Not padded or inflated, everyone Anti-Hartford can say what they wish, but the 80's-90's are not comparable to today, Sports is a whole different animal and people like their sports in 2012 a lot more than 1985 just look at every league in professional sports and compare attendances from 30 years ago to today. Why would Hartford be any different? because you don't want a team here? CT's population has also increased around 200k since 1997 meaning 200,000 more potential fans and Hartford County alone will be pushing 1 million residents by 2020. The fans are here, you can say what you wish.

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Whaleofatime wrote:

> > > Monizzle145 wrote:

>

> > They aren't moving the panthers the mobile alabama. but for **ture

> > transfers or expansions (again i emphasize **ture) you need to prove people will

Sports is a whole different

> animal and people like their sports in 2012 a lot more than 1985 just look at every

> league in professional sports and compare attendances from 30 years ago to today. Why

> would Hartford be any different? because you don't want a team here? CT's population

> has also increased around 200k since 1997 meaning 200,000 more potential fans and

> Hartford County alone will be pushing 1 million residents by 2020. The fans are here,

> you can say what you wish.

 

 

but you just said it yourself this isn't 1985 and its not 2000 anymore either. The trashers failed and even with stanley cups/final apperances in florida both those markets are lackluster. Which is why the NHL has more strict criteria for moving a team to a new city. who cares about 200K more families when hartford county hockey programs are decreasing. 200K more houses but less people show up to ahl games which i try to make when i can to support the effort.

 

If a team is going to come we are going to have to support the AHL team regardless of inferior talent to the NHL brand. Ticket prices are cheaper than ever it seems for the AHL and still less people are coming in. The sports fans are here and even the hockey fans are more loyal to the bruins and rangers in hartford county than ever. But untill those sports fans of yankees and patriots and redsox and giants want a change to bring back hockey we wont have a chance in **** to get a team back.

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Yeah, but most of those "new" fans that you are talking about either were never Whalers fans, or weren't here when the Whalers were here. I'm not saying you're wrong, but just look at the kids, young adults. Look at the people with the money to spend on tickets to go to games. They are mostly fans of the Rangers, Bruins, Islanders, Devils, Flyers, or Penguins. If the NHL does come back, they're not all going to become fans of the new team. Hartford can't even get people to buy tickets to AHL games at $20. What makes anyone think they will go to games at $150?

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Really monizzle, the last I checked the devils were going bankrupt and needed money to stay afloat.. But according to your terms if qualifying for a team San Jose should be moved to because there owner just came out and said twy are losing 15 mill a year..the problem was not hartford but the way the league is run, now evident a step back you may in Winnipeg and Brooklyn because of smaller arenas.. And to think hartfrod won't have the season ticket sales like Winnipeg and Minnesota is redicoulous.. I bet under a salary cap hartford would be a top market for the NHL like it was in the 80's.. Its amazing how you can't awnser the Bettman anti Hartford question.. Howard Baldwin knows a little more than you do about the situation and has repeatedly talked to Bettman, and he was also quoted as saying Hartford can have a team back if the pieces come together.. And the NHL versus ahl is really a not an argument..

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Biggie1083 wrote:

> Yeah, but most of those "new" fans that you are talking about

> either were never Whalers fans, or weren't here when the Whalers were here.

> I'm not saying you're wrong, but just look at the kids, young adults. Look

> at the people with the money to spend on tickets to go to games. They are

> mostly fans of the Rangers, Bruins, Islanders, Devils, Flyers, or Penguins.

> If the NHL does come back, they're not all going to become fans of the new

> team. Hartford can't even get people to buy tickets to AHL games at $20.

> What makes anyone think they will go to games at $150?

 

Biggie I'm a Bruins fan and would convert to a Whalers fan in a second. I know many younger people who do the same or have little interest in hockey (can you blame them when all we have is AHL?), but if the Whalers were here they'd be huge Whaler fans because they're sports fans, but more importantly fans of CT sports team. I'm done discussing this I feel my argument holds more water than just simply brushing it aside as you do. The support wasn't the problem when they were here and it surely won't be when they come back considering there's 200k more CT residents than 1997 and that number will only continue to grow. 2nd richest state, largest tv market without a team, an iconic national brand, corporate community in place and the most importantly the fans are here. XL Center is and will always be the the biggest hurdle until a solution is found.

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jerseydiehardwhaler wrote:

> Really monizzle, the last I checked the devils were going bankrupt and

> needed money to stay afloat.. But according to your terms if qualifying for

> a team San Jose should be moved to because there owner just came out and

> said twy are losing 15 mill a year..the problem was not hartford but the

> way the league is run, now evident a step back you may in Winnipeg and

> Brooklyn because of smaller arenas.. And to think hartfrod won't have the

> season ticket sales like Winnipeg and Minnesota is redicoulous.. I bet

> under a salary cap hartford would be a top market for the NHL like it was

> in the 80's.. Its amazing how you can't awnser the Bettman anti Hartford

> question.. Howard Baldwin knows a little more than you do about the

> situation and has repeatedly talked to Bettman, and he was also quoted as

> saying Hartford can have a team back if the pieces come together.. And the

> NHL versus ahl is really a not an argument..

 

You keep brining up current markets that have teams like san jose, new york new jersey. again the devils are already an established team and yes they are in financial trouble but again they already have a team they don't need to be a qualifier. Betman isn't anti harford as much as he doesn't wanna move another team to a crowded space of the country. Yet again you talk about the islander and devils struggles which as more consistent fanbases than hatford struggling in these economic times can you explain how a team in CT would thrive?

 

Howard Baldwin knows allot more about the situation and look at how his experiement worked out. Are there any more fan fests? Any more whale bowls which i went out and supported to near frostbite. While you cannot compare the NHL to the AHL if harford was such a great hockey market it would go a little better than the crap attendance it has now. But please give me evidence of how our market heavily supports hockey now?

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Whaleofatime - "2nd richest state, largest tv market without a team, an iconic national brand, corporate community in place and the most importantly the fans are here."

 

You're right, but not enough people care about bring the Whalers, or the NHL, back to Hartford. Baldwin tried, but no one cared enough to back him up with enough support or money. The people with the money don't care. The TV and newspapers don't care. The corporate community doesn't care. You can have all the fans you want, but unless the politicans, corporations, and the people with money want to bring a team here, it will never happen. Winnipeg got a team because they had a billionaire, corporations, politicains, a newer building, and the fans.

 

Jersey, you missed my point, I'm a hockey fan and my favorite team is the Rangers. I can't understand how people that say the support, or care about, Hartford Hockey won't go to games in Hartford. It shouldn't matter what the team is affiliated. Winnipeg's biggest rival was the Canunks. The Canucks were the Manitoba Moose's AHL affiliate, but people still went to games. They averaged around 7,000+ fans a game for 15 years.

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Biggie1083 wrote:

> Whaleofatime - "2nd richest state, largest tv market without a team,

> an iconic national brand, corporate community in place and the most

> importantly the fans are here."

>

> You're right, but not enough people care about bring the Whalers, or the

> NHL, back to Hartford. Baldwin tried, but no one cared enough to back him

> up with enough support or money. The people with the money don't care. The

> TV and newspapers don't care. The corporate community doesn't care. You can

> have all the fans you want, but unless the politicans, corporations, and

> the people with money want to bring a team here, it will never happen.

> Winnipeg got a team because they had a billionaire, corporations,

> politicains, a newer building, and the fans.

>

> Jersey, you missed my point, I'm a hockey fan and my favorite team is the

> Rangers. I can't understand how people that say the support, or care about,

> Hartford Hockey won't go to games in Hartford. It shouldn't matter what the

> team is affiliated. Winnipeg's biggest rival was the Canunks. The Canucks

> were the Manitoba Moose's AHL affiliate, but people still went to games.

> They averaged around 7,000+ fans a game for 15 years.

 

thank you biggie and personally ive been a flyers fan after primeau went there but i still support a rival affiliate because i care about hartford hockey. youre right the majority of people with disposable income dont care about supporting hockey corporate or personal families. even look at the hs hockey ranks and teams like fermi and enfield are merging and many dominany hockey towns are forming co ops or downgrading a divison because less people are playing and wathcing hockey in hartford county.

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Sure monizzle, whalers night, whale bowl, whaler fest all drew great numbers for a team that hasn't played in 15 years.. Attendance was up with Howard Baldwin, and was working in the right direction.. Was it an overnight plan, no but he did get canned over night by none other than aeg and MSG, who are in my opinion supressing the market.. Whalers events draw..and biggie you will defend your point to the end and I respect that, but unless you are a whalers fan you don't get it.. And monizzle you contradict yourself.

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Baldwin was "canned" because Reebok went to MSG and the AHL, because Baldwin owed Reebok 1 million dollars. Dave Andrews, the AHL's President and CEO, even said that they told MSG had to fix the problem quickly. Yes, Whalers events draw, but no one with money is going to care about three events. Yes, Baldwin brought up attendance, but so did the rest of the AHL. They went from 4109 (17th in the AHL in 08-09), to 4188 (18th 09-10), to 5695 (12th in 10-11), and all the way down to 4573 (23rd in 11-12). 23rd in attendance is the worst place this team has ever been in the entire league.

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So you blame whalers fans and not pack fans, see biggie we could go round and round here.. It's time for change and aeg and MSG must go.. And all that crap with Baldwin, it was the rangers team and they could have helped seeing he was on to something.. You have it in your mind that people should just support something to support it and its not like that.. Like I said according to you let's put a high school team in the xl, they might draw better than what is there

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I blame all hockey fans that don't go to games for the multitude of stupid reasons. The Wolf Pack fans that stopped going because of the name change, and now the Whalers fans that say they won't go to games because they stopped using Br***** Bonanza as the goal song. If you don't go to games for those reasons, you never cared about the team.

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jerseydiehardwhaler wrote:

> Sure monizzle, whalers night, whale bowl, whaler fest all drew great

> numbers for a team that hasn't played in 15 years.. Attendance was up with

> Howard Baldwin, and was working in the right direction.. Was it an

> overnight plan, no but he did get canned over night by none other than aeg

> and MSG, who are in my opinion supressing the market.. Whalers events

> draw..and biggie you will defend your point to the end and I respect that,

> but unless you are a whalers fan you don't get it.. And monizzle you

> contradict yourself.

 

i dont contradict myself i am a ct hockey fan that realizes the overall hartford market is declining in interest for hockey in hartford. But yet again there are no more fan fests or bowls despite the first ones. And like biggie said people with money (corporations and sports fans w/expendable income) are not supporting ct hockey. Baldwin failed miserably this second time regardless of MSG. He was the one who made a terrible deal off the bat with AEG and MSG (which he admitted). Attendance didn't really change that much after baldwin took over it went up slightly but not much. While you claim i contradict myself you have yet to show proof that the community is growing more interesting in hockey and not declining. Cause like it or not the market is growing less interested in the NHL coming back.

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Monizzle145 wrote:

 

> i dont contradict myself i am a ct hockey fan that realizes the overall hartford

> market is declining in interest for hockey in hartford.

 

Yea that seems pretty expected considering we've gone from NHL to AHL. Going from watching Wayne Gretzky and Gordie Howe skate in Hartford to watching Kelsey Tessier and Tommy Grant will do that. Corporate and fan support will only be there for NHL. WPG is a unique case considering they didn't have ANY competition against Moose (how many times do I need to point this out for you Rangie?) entertainment wise and were after-all a Canadian team. Look at the Hamilton Bulldogs the Whale draw around the same yearly, does that make us a better market or even the Citadels when they were in Quebec City? By your and Biggie standards it would. That might not be the case, but what it does prove is the AHL is not a draw even in hockey crazed markets, they don't automatically support the AHL, period. Just because you don't support the AHL does not mean you can't support the NHL. And yes I know the Remparts draw well in Qc, but why is that? Why did the AHL fail so badly there? Why is the AHL failing so badly in Hamilton and most likely on their way to Laval? Because the AHL is not as great as a league as Biggie will make it seem, most hockey fans DO NOT CARE for minor league hockey, especially when they're reduced to not only watching an inferior product, but on top of that have to watch rivals farmhands and even deal with their fans. From Filet Mignon to garbage diving.

Edited by Guest

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Whaleofatime wrote:

> Monizzle145 wrote:

>

> > .

>

> Yea that seems pretty expected considering we've gone from NHL to AHL. Going from

> watching Wayne Gretzky and Gordie Howe skate in Hartford to watching Kelsey Tessier

> and Tommy Grant will do that. Corporate and fan support will only be there for NHL.

> WPG is a unique case considering they didn't have ANY competition against Moose (how

> many times do I need to point this out for you Rangie?) entertainment wise and were

> after-all a Canadian team. Look at the Hamilton Bulldogs the Whale draw better, does

> that make us a better market or even the Citadels when they were in Quebec City? By

> your and Biggie standards it would. That might not be the case, but what it does

> prove is the AHL is not a draw even in hockey crazed markets, they don't

> automatically support the AHL, period. Just because you don't support the AHL does

> not mean you can't support the NHL.

 

 

but supporting the AHL is the only hope for any type of consideration for the NHL. That and building a new arena. You cant tell the NHL "well if we had the NHL we promise well show up!" And the whole building a new arena thing is not even close to being possible due to the lack of governmental and taxtapayer support for a new venue. If we were such a great hockey market there would be more outcry for a new arena like quebec but there is not.

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Monizzle145 wrote:

"Which is why the NHL has more strict criteria for moving a team to a new city."

 

Huh? Karmanos moved the Whalers out of Hartford before he even new where it was going. Tampa Bay & Ottawa got their teams because theirs were the owners who were actually willing to pay the NHL's huge expansion fee requirement. "Strict Criteria." Thanks for the laugh.

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Quebec had 1,100 people, on buses, to drive 9 and a half hours for a game on Long Island. Whalers fans couldn't even get 100 people to go a game 2 and a half hour away. And people wonder why no one talks about Hartford getting a team. There are a lot of other places ahead of Hartford.

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Biggie1083 wrote:

"They are mostly fans of the Rangers, Bruins, Islanders, Devils, Flyers, or Penguins. If the NHL does come back, they're not all going to become fans of the new team."

 

You say this same thing with these same teams at least once a week. Did you take a poll? Of course not everybody is going to become fans of a new team. In any city.

 

Biggie1083 wrote: "Hartford can't even get people to buy tickets to AHL games at $20. What makes anyone think they will go to games at $150?"

 

They won't buy a $20 ticket to watch a team they don't like who treats them like garbage. But they will pay $150 to see their own team playing for our city with & against teh best players in the world.

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