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HYMH "What you're overlooking Burke is that once W S & E was canned, & fans saw the Rags going back to their same garbage, there was no point in going anymore"

 

Just for the record. they still play you beloved br***** bonanza for everything the Baldwins did. But I think Make is overlooking that.

If all the Whaler fans have stopped going already what is there to loose by going back to WolfPack?????

 

Which is it HYMH? Have everyone stopped going already or will they stop going if the team goes back to WolfPack??? You can't have it both ways.

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Let's keep three things in mind here as well:

 

1) attendance ALWAYS hurts until Christmas/NFL season ends for whatever reasons

 

2) Less Sa****ay night games combined with 7pm Friday starts will hurt numbers no matter who runs this team or whatever the brand

 

3) There's been no consistent run of home dates in the early season to maintain momentum with the casual fans. There are a ton of home dates this month. Lets see what happens. Of course, there are big gaps between home games in January so that'll help crush momentum.

 

Hmmm. Looks like the schedule isn't helping is it?

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BurkeIsGod wrote:

> HYMH "What you're overlooking Burke is that once W S & E was

> canned, & fans saw the Rags going back to their same garbage, there was

> no point in going anymore"

>

> Just for the record. they still play you beloved br***** bonanza for

> everything the Baldwins did. But I think Make is overlooking that.

> If all the Whaler fans have stopped going already what is there to loose by

> going back to WolfPack?????

>

> Which is it HYMH? Have everyone stopped going already or will they stop

> going if the team goes back to WolfPack??? You can't have it both ways.

 

Let's just simplify it, Burke. Perhaps everyone is just tired of all the BS from each direction, & the obvious point that the Rags don't give a whit about Hartford. Either way, it's clear the best thing is a fresh hockey start. Which is why I think I'm rooting for Comcast; no way they re-sign the Rags here.

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I gotta say if AEG doesnt win the bid, Ill be very happy wth Bushnell taking the bid provided the rumors of the Rangers staying are true. Attendance for the AHL doesnt pick up until after the holiday season. Last season with the schedule done the Baldwins way didnt help and the schedule the way it is this year isnt helping attendance either, yet. I agree with jimmy on his points made as well.

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Yeah, so much for you guys saying "we need a local company running the building" Your taking Philly over Hartford. Thank you

 

Jimmy is right at least in Springfield you could just go enjoy a hockey game. I remember when we could do that in Hartford. Then Howard Baldwin brought in his politics. "Support this team so we can get rid of it" What an idiot! Hartford Hockey can not succeed if you make it about a team that no longer exists. You have to work with what you have. That's probably the biggest thing the NYR want to separate themselves from. The attitude of putting the past above the present.

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BurkeIsGod wrote:

> Yeah, so much for you guys saying "we need a local company running the

> building" Your taking Philly over Hartford. Thank you

>

> Jimmy is right at least in Springfield you could just go enjoy a hockey

> game. I remember when we could do that in Hartford. Then Howard Baldwin

> brought in his politics. "Support this team so we can get rid of

> it" What an idiot! Hartford Hockey can not succeed if you make it

> about a team that no longer exists. You have to work with what you have.

> That's probably the biggest thing the NYR want to separate themselves from.

> The attitude of putting the past above the present.

 

 

I couldnt agree more with what you just said Burke. I completely agree and I know and understand why the Rangers want to do this is they continue to stay past this season. Howard didnt get that you cant make a current team be about the past or above the current team.

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BurkeIsGod wrote:

"Yeah, so much for you guys saying "we need a local company running the building" Your taking Philly over Hartford. Thank you"

"Jimmy is right at least in Springfield you could just go enjoy a hockey game. I remember when we could do that in Hartford. Then Howard Baldwin brought in his politics. "Support this team so we can get rid of it" What an idiot! Hartford Hockey can not succeed if you make it about a team that no longer exists. You have to work with what you have. That's probably the biggest thing the NYR want to separate themselves from. The attitude of putting the past above the present."

 

I said you can go to Springfield & just enjoy a hockey game.

 

& I'm putting Hartford first. The best way to improve this hockey market is for the Rags & their garbage to go elsewhere. That is what will help Hartford the most. I don't care what company runs things as long as it helps Hartford. To make this simple, the Rags do not help Hartford. In fact, the opposite is true.

 

If the Bushnell wins the bid, keeps the Lose-Shirts who then return to the Wolf * Pack, what difference does it make if it's them or MSAEG?

 

You guys keep throwing the NHL at us; I'll say this again: right now I'd be happy to see a success**l AHL franchise here, even if that's all we end up with. One that gives a whit about the market & it's fans.

 

Who cares what the Rags want to separate themselves from? They can separate themselves from Hartford & then everybody wins.

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"The majority of people that call themselves "Whaler fans" want this team gone. So sorry the "Whaler Fans" do not make up most of the fan base, not even now"

 

Once again...and I've said this over and over ad nauseum...if there were more WolfPack fans, the team would have drawn more, Howard would not have been brought in to begin with, and there wouldn't have been a rebrand. Why do you people constantly miss that oh so simple little fact?????

 

"But the fairness comparison we have ever had is AEG marketing the WolfPack in 09/10 to AEG marketing the Whale in 12/13. The 2 minor differences I can think of is the WolfPack never had $1 dog $2 beer together never mind on a Friday. So no matter how bad they messed it up it don't matter."

 

It does matter! You never get a 2nd chance to make a 1st impression. One of the largest crowds of the year is Opening Night...that whole opening night fiasco could have turned some people off. You don't know.

 

By the way, if you want to compare 2009/2010 to this year...you're not going to like it.

 

10 games, 2009/10 -- 33,001 fans, 3,300.1/game

10 games, 2012/13 -- 36,047 fans, 3,604.7/game

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"Last season with the schedule done the Baldwins way didnt help and the schedule the way it is this year isnt helping attendance either, yet. I agree with jimmy on his points made as well."

 

Another thing that's conveniently forgotten. One of the reasons the attendance dropped last year was the team wasn't promoted at all from say December 1st to the end of the season. Hard to promote when there is no money to do so.

 

But, as always, why let facts get in the way.

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"Howard didnt get that you cant make a current team be about the past or above the current team."

 

Wrong yet again. Howard tried like **** to promote this team. He wanted the players to make appearances, do the St. Patrick's Day parade, and whatever else, and the Rangers said no.

 

He promoted the past because he wasn't allowed to promote the present.

 

Oh, and the $1 dog/$2 beer promotion? Howard asked AEG and Delaware North if he could do that and they said no.

 

Boggles my mind that you simpletons (Packfan, Burke) think that going back to the Wolfpack brand will be better for Hartford, especially considering how bad things were before Baldwin came in.

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"if there were more WolfPack fans, the team would have drawn more, Howard would not have been brought in to begin with, and there wouldn't have been a rebrand. Why do you people constantly miss that oh so simple little fact?????"

 

We don't. Why do you keep missing the fact that, if the Whalers/Whale had more fans the Whale would have drawn more. Howard Baldwin would have been making more ticket revenue, so he would be able to pay his bills and he would be king of Hartford and still running the team.

 

But that's not what happened. Whalers fans did not back him enough for him to accomplish his goal and now he is gone.

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"We don't. Why do you keep missing the fact that, if the Whalers/Whale had more fans the Whale would have drawn more. Howard Baldwin would have been making more ticket revenue, so he would be able to pay his bills and he would be king of Hartford and still running the team.

 

But that's not what happened. Whalers fans did not back him enough for him to accomplish his goal and now he is gone."

 

Let me ask you a question...what minor league sports team goes from drawing 4,190/game to 7,000/game in one season? Answer: NONE. Can't be done in two seasons either. Now...maybe in 3 or 4 years, you might be able to do it...IF you have the proper financial backing...IF you have a building manager that works with you and not against you...IF you have fans that actually understand the WolfPack and Whale are the same damn team...And so on.

 

It's so very easy to blame this on Howard...or Whalers fans...but there are a lot of places to put blame besides those two, and that blame should start with AEG and Chuck Steedman who did absolutely NOTHING to even try to make Howard succeed. Goals and all aside, when your lease is TWICE the league average, that's where the problem starts. I've heard that the minute Howard signed that deal...before a fan went through the turnstiles, other AHL people called the deal "suicide". While Howard deserves a piece of the blame...in reality, it's a very small piece.

 

If you and the rest of the Rangers fans really think things will be just dandy with the WolfPack brand, I'd like to sell you a bridge in Brooklyn, or an ocean front property in Nebraska.

Edited by Guest

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Howard's downfall was working with the Rangers. They gave him no chance to be success**l! Hope**lly the next in line has learned this pain**l lesson, that it doesn't pay to work with the Rangers.

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Howard bringing "his politics" into it was the problem? What the **** are you talking about dude? Seriously.

 

Since you work for AEG, Burke is God, you know you aren't exactly objective in your viewpoint on this stuff. I don't blame you for that, I'd probably feel the same way were I you and hockey succeeding in Hartford threatened my self-interest. All the same, the fact is AEG cut Howard Baldwin's nuts off in all this and it was simply business. But, that's not good for Hartford. Plain and simple. NOT GOOD FOR HARTFORD. And Mark is right about the Rangers saying no to everything he proposed. I felt like we could do much better than what we have and I think it's stupid to accuse Howard of "living in the past." How the **** is that a statement that in any way is supportive of the idea that Hartford could succeed?? And what's with your boss going on "Face The State" and poo pooing the idea of retail in the old mall space? Not exactly a **ll sales pitch bro. I really wish you people gave a ***** about Hartford because we who do love the city deserve much more than what we get in terms of effort.

 

You are definitely right that the fan support hasn't been there for what Howard wanted, nor was there sellout throngs in many years for the Pack either so there is merit to the discussion of whether Hartford has the fan support necessary to sustain hockey. But you won't TRULY know that until a genuine effort (over several seasons) is made to cultivate it. And if, god forbid, you folks at AEG do change it back to the Pack and actually win the contract to stay here, ACTUALLY MARKET THE TEAM. Put it on a REAL RADIO STATION that people can hear the games. How can you say you guys have done anything more than the minimum effort required to save face on this one?

 

That aside, I'd take the Bushnell running the show with the Rangers staying

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BurkeisGod- "Jimmy is right at least in Springfield you could just go enjoy a hockey game. I remember when we could do that in Hartford. Then Howard Baldwin brought in his politics. "Support this team so we can get rid of it" What an idiot! Hartford Hockey can not succeed if you make it about a team that no longer exists. You have to work with what you have. That's probably the biggest thing the NYR want to separate themselves from. The attitude of putting the past above the present."

 

Just to clear up some Incorrect statements. I have proven in person to people here on this board that showed Baldwin tried to extend the Rangers for a decade. Here in Hartford. Anything to the contrary is just not true at all.

 

However to our knowledge the offer to AEG was not answered or we dont know what they said but as you can see it certainly wasnt an unequivocal, Yes!

 

It was sent to AEG,AHL,Mayors office, and the CDA and we didn't hear a thing about an extension. I ask you again who out of this group tried to keep the Rangers here for a decade? It doesn't appear to be the state, AEG or the CDA by what we know so far.

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BurkeisGod- "So much for you guys saying you wanted a local company to run the XL, you are picking Philly over Hartford"

 

Technically you are correct but Global Spectrum(Philly as you say) has a very important local guy to Whaler fans and he is known now as Senoir Vice President Of Global Spectrum, Frank Russo.

 

Read up

From 1974-83, Russo was Executive Director of the Hartford Civic Center with the responsibility for its 16,500-seat coliseum and 95,000-square-feet of convention, tradeshow, and meeting space. He scheduled over 600 event days per year, and in his last year with the Center, achieved a $1.2 million operating surplus. During the 1979-1980 periods, Russo also served as Acting President of the Greater Hartford Convention and Visitors Bureau and was named Civil Employee of the Year in 1979 by the Greater Hartford Jaycees.

 

His six years experience in municipal management includes positions as *****istant to the City Manager of Hartford and as a Municipal Services Specialist, providing management and financial consulting to various Connecticut cities and towns on behalf of the State of Connecticut Department of Community Affairs. He taught a course in Public *****embly Facility

Management as an adjunct professor for the Departments of Sports Studies at the University of M*****achusetts and University of Connecticut.

 

Totally understandable why people would be in to "PHILLY"

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Oh, and here's another little tidbit for you haters out there.

 

Remember, Howard didn't take over running the team until mid-September of 2010. That season, he had 14 Sa****ay night home dates. Sa****ay night dates, as everyone knows, are the prime dates, and historically the best night for attendance in this city, regardless of league, team, colors, whatever.

 

In the 2011/12 season, there were 12 Sa****ay night home dates. This season, with the available arena dates given to Howard long before they were shown the door in June, that number had magically shrunk to 10.

 

Now...what's the common denominator in this whole process??? Why yes....it's 3 simple letters. A.E.G.

 

They're the ones that put off putting the approval stamp on Howard taking over until the last minute, it's AEG that tells the Whale which dates the building is available, and it's AEG that magically reduced the number of Sa****ay home games from 14 to 10 in just two seasons.

 

Still want to blame Howard for everything???? :roll:

Edited by Guest

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I don't understand why AEG couldn't simply co-exist with an NHL team if one ever returned? Why not still run the place and collect rent from a NHL tenant? I don't get AEG's jihad against this whole process in the first place. Weird.

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TheWhaleGuy123 wrote:

> Sounds a lot better for Hartford than "Outsider from M*****achusetts VP

> and Outsider AEG Operations Guy from New Jersey/Philly" doesn't it?

 

Not to mention he's a Rags fan. For all we know he probably degrades this market just like Rangers fans on this board.

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Whaleofatime: I know you asked Evo the question, but I feel pretty confident that I can answer this...

 

If they had their pick, I am like 90% sure they'd say Comcast Global.

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MarkH2919 wrote:

> Whaleofatime: I know you asked Evo the question, but I feel pretty

> confident that I can answer this...

>

> If they had their pick, I am like 90% sure they'd say Comcast Global

 

Good to see we're on the same page, for what it's worth, at least.

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